Shibatas By Two

[Radar53]

Over the weekend I decided to sharpen my Shibatas for the first time. I have the 180 bunka and the 240 kashima both in R2 & I've had both for just over a year. The OOTB edge on them was the best I've had in over 15+ JK's now, with my Takeda AS 210 Classic probably the next in line here. Both still sharp as, but a few days ago I "tapped" the edge of the kashima onto our stone bench and holding the edge to the light I could see reflections. I know, I know. I couldn't talk to myself for an hour or two. Surprisingly, I enjoyed the silence

Home cook & both knives are used in a rotation along with my other knives. The kashima also has half a dozen or so micro chips, the bunka (which my wife also uses) maybe a few more. With R2 @ HRC of 62, I would normally be targetting an angle of say 13º (true to the spine / edge centreline), but thought I would check out Shiba's edges first. His edge looked to be somewhere in the 1 to 1.5k area for grit??, but what surprised me somewhat was that it was about 9.5º true to the centreline. No wonder the things cut like crazy and I'm impressed that the R2 copes with that so well.

I decided to stay with Shiba's angles, given that I hadn't had any problems with them over the last year or so. I don't have enough confidence in my freehand skills as yet to attack my most prized knives, so used my EdgePro with a progression of Shapton Glass 1k & 2k finished with a Nubatama 5k, which leaves a nice, refined but toothy edge. I added a small micro-bevel to the bunka, just to give the edge a bit more support.

Tried them out on some fruit & veg and my oh my, Shibata's treatment of R2 and his choice of angles obviously make for fantastic knives.

[Robstreperous]

Hey Grant. I second that about Shiba's treatement and grind. I had some microchips at first so I sharpened the OOTB edge pretty early in my experience with it. Home cook like you. I also ended with a Nubatama 5K. It held up great for a very long time. Most recently I have it polished up with a Takeshima which is somewhere north of 9K. It's done great.

Later this month I'm going to take it up to a Nakayama Asagi which will be further north of that.... Wish me luck!

These are great knives.

[Radar53]

Hi there Rob. Hmmmm......... I seriously thought about going to my Nub10k bamboo to finish the kashima, but settled for the 5k. I really like a good refined edge and now you've got me thinking about it again. I've also got some 3M diamond tapes that go to never-never-land and like the Nubatamas they have a nice toothy finish.

Good luck with the Nakayama Asagi & I'll let you know if I take mine higher

[Jeff B]

I have a Kurosaki Hammered R2 that performs very close to a Shibata. I have a 4k edge on it and it performs great but next time I sharpen it I'm going to take it to 8k just to see how it acts and holds up at that refinement. Gotta try it to know.

[Radar53]

Hi Jeff, yes half the fun is playing & trying different things to see what falls out. Somehow I think that your knives would get a much more intense workout than mine though!!

[Jeff B]

I'm just a home cook myself Grant with way to many knives so don't be so sure about that.

[gladius]

Hi there Rob. Hmmmm......... I seriously thought about going to my Nub10k bamboo to finish the kashima, but settled for the 5k. I really like a good refined edge and now you've got me thinking about it again. I've also got some 3M diamond tapes that go to never-never-land and like the Nubatamas they have a nice toothy finish.

Good luck with the Nakayama Asagi & I'll let you know if I take mine higher

---
Shibata San uses a unique technique of different grits on each side: try that method. Perhaps a 5k on the left and 8k on the right. I like using up to an 8k on my Shibata. Beyond that the R2 doesn't seem to get much sharper and edge retention declines somewhat.

[Radar53]

Hi gladius, well there's a thought that hadn't crossed my mind. I'm just trying to think back because I looked quite closely at both sides with a Loupé - none so blind I guess!!

Jeff you might be just a home cook as well, but nothing like me I can say that for sure. I remember a recent pic of one huge forequarter of beast that you were breaking down. Don't think that I've seen that at my place tho .....

[Jeff B]

...Jeff you might be just a home cook as well, but nothing like me I can say that for sure. I remember a recent pic of one huge forequarter of beast that you were breaking down. Don't think that I've seen that at my place tho .....

Ok, I'll give you that! He's been a tasty beast too!

[Peter Nowlan]

Hey there. I’m fortunate enough to get to sharpen several of Shibata Sans knives.
If you want to try something very cool and exceptionally sharp try spacing out the edges on each side a little more. I’ve used a 400/3,000 Edge which is fantastic on vegetables. A 1k/8k Edge is also quite something. I get to sharpen all the dream knives and the Kotetsu is my favourite, if I could own one Japanese knife it would be that one. ( I could own one of course).
It also never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to sharpen the dream knives, the Kotetsu, Fujiwara, Masakage etc as opposed to some lesser knives. A testament to the makers for sure and the steel they select. (Sorry, rambling a little here)

[Jeff B]

...(Sorry, rambling a little here)

It's never rambling when we hear from you Peter! We love all the little insights that come from the sharpening God.

[Peter Nowlan]

You are way to kind Jeff. But thanks, I’ll ramble on

[slobound]

Hey there. I’m fortunate enough to get to sharpen several of Shibata Sans knives.
If you want to try something very cool and exceptionally sharp try spacing out the edges on each side a little more. I’ve used a 400/3,000 Edge which is fantastic on vegetables. A 1k/8k Edge is also quite something. I get to sharpen all the dream knives and the Kotetsu is my favourite, if I could own one Japanese knife it would be that one. ( I could own one of course).
It also never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to sharpen the dream knives, the Kotetsu, Fujiwara, Masakage etc as opposed to some lesser knives. A testament to the makers for sure and the steel they select. (Sorry, rambling a little here)

I’m gonna have to give this a try!

[Radar53]

Sorry, I've been away from my keyboards for a day or two.

Peter, thanks for coming back as I always find your comments insightful and appreciate you making the effort, so please feel free to ramble on anytime. With both you and gladius suggesting different grits on each side, that's something that I will definitely follow up on.

As I said earlier I spent a bit of time checking with a Loupé and I put the edge at 1 - 1.5k, but wasn't looking for it to be different. On thinking back maybe my uncertainty about the grit size, could have been created by that difference between sides, that I saw but didn't recognise.

All a really good learning experience so thanks to all for your input.

[ChefKnivesToGo]

I like doing the same thing as Peter. 500/2K or 320 2k followed by a light strop on loaded leather produces a very nice kitchen knife edge.

[Radar53]

Thanks Mark. Heck, everybody seems to be doing this, yet it's something that I wasn't really aware of. Definitely going to have to play with this.

Thanks again for another learning experience.

[ex1580]

I just read this post and feel like I learned so much. I would not have thought to only sharpen one side. I have a knife this would work well on. Thanks everyone for sharing!

[Robstreperous]

Hey Rob. Two comments.

1. Listen to everybody else's advice above. Did not realize as @gladius mentioned Shibata-san uses different finish on left right edges. Sounds like fun.... Spacing out the grits... more fun...

2. When not listening to everybody else on this thread, like you, I like a 5K finish on my Shibatas.

[jknife]

I have a question. When finishing a knife progression I strop on the stone, alternating back and forth between the sides. It would seen to me that maintaining the different grits on different sides would require setting up both stones at the same time. Am I missing something here (wouldn't be the first time)?

[STPepper9]

When I sharpen mine I sharpen fully on both sides at the low grit, then as I go to higher grits on one side, I occasionally (on the higher grit stone that is in use) lightly use stropping motions on the low grit side just to keep the edge clean.
I have had the two stones set up to go back and forth and don't notice much benefit either way.. I have not completely ignored the low grit side until strop time yet, but I suspect it would be fine.