How many tries to get a good edge?
- ChefKnivesToGo
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How many tries to get a good edge?
When you first learned to sharpen how many knives did it take you to get what you felt was a good result?
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
From a sharper than before standpoint, I didn’t stop on my first one til I got there. I took off a lot more than necessary to get there. From a “good edge” standpoint it was a few months of daily sharpening everything in sight to get there. I’m still trying to get the Gamache level 10.
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- lsboogy
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
When I got my first Kikuichi knife 30 years ago, I was still sharpening on Arkasas stones (learned from my dad on planes and mom on knives from about age 10) - and edges were 20 degrees or more. I also bought a huge kikuichi 1000 grit whetstone at the same time and that was my edge for several years. I bought a king combo (1K/6K) that I tried but I still can't get the thing to give me a decent edge at WS about 5 years after that - still figured my 1K edge was great and did give my knives a good slice capability.
About 15 years ago, I went to visit Tokyo and my buddy took me to a knife store and I bought a few knives and a bunch of J natural stones and some others (I think this was the end of my denial of a passion for collecting kitchen knives) - I ended up with about a dozen stones and started learning to get better edges than I had ever done before. Even my Sabs and German knives could push cut copy paper - thought I was pretty hot stuff
But when Rick came back to town with his knives, I realized there was a level beyond what I was doing - I'm still learning, and have the advantage of having a SEM at work, so I get a very good look at what my edges look like now.
It's a profession that takes time - more for some than others, but practice gets you better - all we can hope for. My daughter learned to out a good edge on her first suisin in a few tries, but she is now a better sharpener than I am (she sells cheese for a living). I would hesitate that two or three times might get you a decent 1K edge if you know what a burr feels like, but my 6K edges are now sharper than my 8K's were a few years ago - it just depends on what you think a good edge is. There is almost no absolute refinement until you get to grain structure in a blade - my white#1 knives will get sharper than any others - but a knife is personal. I like to use some of my knives more than others - have a few that I seem to be selling on as dailies - AEBL 240 Ultimatum, Kohetsu 210 HAP40 and a Kikuichi carbon steel knife (older than me). Grinds are what I'm learning about now. It's a lifelong learning thing - sharpening, balance, technique are all part of it. Sharpen as best you can - learn and refine - I will never be satisfied with my sharpening ability to the point I won't try to learn more.
About 15 years ago, I went to visit Tokyo and my buddy took me to a knife store and I bought a few knives and a bunch of J natural stones and some others (I think this was the end of my denial of a passion for collecting kitchen knives) - I ended up with about a dozen stones and started learning to get better edges than I had ever done before. Even my Sabs and German knives could push cut copy paper - thought I was pretty hot stuff
But when Rick came back to town with his knives, I realized there was a level beyond what I was doing - I'm still learning, and have the advantage of having a SEM at work, so I get a very good look at what my edges look like now.
It's a profession that takes time - more for some than others, but practice gets you better - all we can hope for. My daughter learned to out a good edge on her first suisin in a few tries, but she is now a better sharpener than I am (she sells cheese for a living). I would hesitate that two or three times might get you a decent 1K edge if you know what a burr feels like, but my 6K edges are now sharper than my 8K's were a few years ago - it just depends on what you think a good edge is. There is almost no absolute refinement until you get to grain structure in a blade - my white#1 knives will get sharper than any others - but a knife is personal. I like to use some of my knives more than others - have a few that I seem to be selling on as dailies - AEBL 240 Ultimatum, Kohetsu 210 HAP40 and a Kikuichi carbon steel knife (older than me). Grinds are what I'm learning about now. It's a lifelong learning thing - sharpening, balance, technique are all part of it. Sharpen as best you can - learn and refine - I will never be satisfied with my sharpening ability to the point I won't try to learn more.
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
Define good resultsChefKnivesToGo wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:51 am When you first learned to sharpen how many knives did it take you to get what you felt was a good result?
My uncle taught me to sharpen when I was 12 (50 years ago). His definition of sharp was to see if it would catch the edge on your finger nail, and you can’t see light on the edge. This was pretty good for my outdoor stuff and kitchen needs.
This took about two knives but got easier as I did more.
Then three years ago I found this site. It has produced so much better edges. Did not take long as I already had the fundamentals down it was just using better tools ( cha Ching) and techniques.
Home cook that enjoys sharp knives.
Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
This is an interesting question- I was happy with the first edge I ever produced freehand although it did take some time. I have found though, that my idea of "good" changes as I get better and the bar raises.
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
Think isboogy states things pretty well. It's also so often that the goal posts move and you can keep striving.
- ken123
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
My edges have changed a lot over the years from using my grandfather's carborundum (dished) stone to repairing microsurgical instruments mostly on Arkansas stones to today. I still seek a perfect precision edge. The journey has been evolutionary and I probably couldn't give a good answer to this.
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Ken
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Ken
- lsboogy
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
As Ken says - we are all learning. What I thought was sharp 45 years ago is really dull now. What I ough was good even 5 years ago is now a couple stones and a strop seesion from good. Next year I might think what I'm doing now is iffy. Having no kids at home means I can play more - for me sharpening is a constant learning experience - until I can make an obsidian edge, I'm not at the end of the path. The goal posts won't stop movingSeattle_Ben wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 1:40 pm Think isboogy states things pretty well. It's also so often that the goal posts move and you can keep striving.
- ChefKnivesToGo
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
I felt my edge dig into my cutting board on the 3rd knife and I was pleased with that. The edge bevel was sloppy when looking at it under my loupe but that was the start. One of the things I had to learn was patience in getting a good edge on my lowest grit stone (which was a 1K red brick I think) before moving to the finishing stone (which was a Chosera 5k).
I think after about a hundred tries I felt pretty confident and had a repeatable method that got me good results everytime. I’m sure you guys are like me and are always trying little things to get an extra ounce of cutting performance out of the edge so I’m still tinkering almost daily with small changes just to keep me interested.
I think after about a hundred tries I felt pretty confident and had a repeatable method that got me good results everytime. I’m sure you guys are like me and are always trying little things to get an extra ounce of cutting performance out of the edge so I’m still tinkering almost daily with small changes just to keep me interested.
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
The first knife i got an edge that made me happy(literally) was a global 8" chef knife..... I tried and tried... Over and over... I ground that knife until my knuckles hit the cutting board lol
But i got it.... Lol i stayed pretty happy for a while... Until a year ago i saw a guy named Michael Christy on youtube sharpening folding knives with a stone IN HAND and thought... "This guy is a retard"
Then i watched him whittle free hanging hair....
Wtf...
After that i not only wanted to learn the technique of sharpening in hand... But i wanted those edges.
Ive been chasing them like a mad man lol
I started a thread in the "sharpening advice" section because i recently started to use Ken Schwartz's products to see if they really are the "Cadillac" of compounds... Lol they are
Here's the video i put up... Its 1095 steel brought up to kens 1 micron polydiamond
https://youtu.be/1CMn2gjjohc
But i got it.... Lol i stayed pretty happy for a while... Until a year ago i saw a guy named Michael Christy on youtube sharpening folding knives with a stone IN HAND and thought... "This guy is a retard"
Then i watched him whittle free hanging hair....
Wtf...
After that i not only wanted to learn the technique of sharpening in hand... But i wanted those edges.
Ive been chasing them like a mad man lol
I started a thread in the "sharpening advice" section because i recently started to use Ken Schwartz's products to see if they really are the "Cadillac" of compounds... Lol they are
Here's the video i put up... Its 1095 steel brought up to kens 1 micron polydiamond
https://youtu.be/1CMn2gjjohc
- Organic
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
It would say the first edge that I was happy with took 3-5 sharpening sessions or so, I don't recall exactly. The problem for me wasn't so much that I couldn't get results that I thought were sharp, but it was that I wasn't consistently getting results that I liked and I was having a lot of trouble getting results that were both sharp and aesthetically appealing. Getting consistently sharp knives and attractive bevels became a non-issue when I switched to using a Wicked Edge. It does have its drawbacks, but man that tool does a fantastic job.
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
I sharpened at least a hundred knives at first with poor results but that was 40 years ago. I’m starting to get the hand of it now. I think everything changed after I got an Edge Pro Professional and finally saw what a really sharp knife actually is and I could set a new standard, new goals. I think it’s different for everyone but I’m glad there is no peaking, no summit to reach except in our own minds.
- Jeff B
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
The first knife I sharpened turned out awesome as has every knife since.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
- ChefKnivesToGo
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
Like 50 years! I have tried throughout my life with different knives, stones, gadgets, whatever to sharpen knives. Some were ok, some not good, but none were great. A few years back when I started getting some nice kitchen knives I knew I wanted to sharpen them and not send them out. So, I researched and actually ended up with an Edge Pro. It worked! It did have limitations and it took forever, but the good part was I started paying attention to what was going on, understanding the angles, pressure, what the steel looked like. I mean, essentially it is stationary steel and a jig to hold the stone and move it consistently. That is when it hit me. With bench stones, the stone is stationary, my hands become the jig to hold the steel and move it consistently. I instantly started getting better edges from hand sharpening and continue to get better all the time. Now, if only I could completely lock up my "human hand" jig to maintain perfect consistency, LOL!
- Organic
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Re: How many tries to get a good edge?
I should clarify that what I was happy with when I was first starting out would be totally unacceptable to me by my current standards.Organic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:09 pm It would say the first edge that I was happy with took 3-5 sharpening sessions or so, I don't recall exactly. The problem for me wasn't so much that I couldn't get results that I thought were sharp, but it was that I wasn't consistently getting results that I liked and I was having a lot of trouble getting results that were both sharp and aesthetically appealing. Getting consistently sharp knives and attractive bevels became a non-issue when I switched to using a Wicked Edge. It does have its drawbacks, but man that tool does a fantastic job.