Using Arkansas stones on Japanese blades.

[ChefKnivesToGo]

On Wed, Aug 29, 2018 at 3:56 PM
Hello,

I just purchased a Fujiwara FKM gyuto which I believe is a stainless steel knife, and I was wondering if it is appropriate for me to use my Arkansas soft and hard whetstones? Will they be able to produce a sharp enough blade? If not, what would you recommend?

Also, I have been gifted two other Japanese knives - one is super blue steel and one is super white steel. What are the best kind of stones to sharpen this type of steel? I had read that Arkansas stones wouldn't be good for that, but I had some trouble finding stone recommendations that would.

I was looking at the top seller stone sharpening kit you guys sell, but I'm on the lower end of a budget so I'm not sure what the best way is to go about getting stones to sharpen these knives.

Thank you!
Stephen

[ChefKnivesToGo]

Hi Stephen,

I can’t tell you how many of my older customers have told me they learned how to sharpen a knife (usually from their father) on Arkansas stones when they were a child. It’s a cool tradition.

Yes of course you can use your stones to sharpen these knives. I always encourage customers to use what they have and only upgrade if what they’re using doesn’t give them good results. Just make sure you keep your stones flat and you can do this cheaply with some coarse wet dry sandpaper.

If you need some assistance after giving it a go please ask.

Mark

[ken123]

Arkansas stones are quite hard and stay flat for a long time so flattening them isn't a chief concern. I too started out using Arkansas stones for repairing microsurgical instruments.

The primary abrasives for Arkansas stones is noviculite. It isn't a particularly strong abrasive used against more abrasion resistant steels. They have been around for years in use so they are popular but their strong use is for softer steels - typically knives butchers use.

For your better Japanese knives, you will find Japanese waterstones a superior choice. Arkansas stones can be used but because of their low Mohs hardness levels, think of them as a gym membership - lots of exercise .

You will also find some using oil on them and some not. I prefer to use them with water only, avoiding oil cross-contamination issues.

If you already have them, I would suggest using them in combination with CBN emulsions, typically around 4 microns or approximately a 4k grit. I have a number of users using this combination. You are essentially using the Ark. stone as a platen this way.

You will occasionally find straight razor honers using these stones. IMO this primarily provides a burnishing effect. There are multiple opinions on the topic.

There is minimal difference between the surgical black and the translucent stones.

Another group of users for Arkansas stones are gun repair people. They usualy use oil soaked stones. The advantage for this is that the stones maintain dimensional stability well so they allow for precise fitting of machined parts used in guns.

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Ken

[Mistabob_dob]

What waterstones would you recommend as a good one to keep my current blades sharp? I know good ones cost a nice chunk of change, but I'm wondering if it's worth buying a set at once and sucking up the cost or buying one here and one there.

[ken123]

White steel tends to be a bit easier to sharpen than blue, so any one of a number of choices will work well for these. I have my personal preferences both for natural and synthetic stones.

Many people will like the Shapton GlassStones as a good start. They will easily handle these steels. If you don't have to do major repairs, you can start with a 1k 2k 4k sequence.

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Ken

[Mistabob_dob]

Is is feasible to buy one of those stones for now and then pick up others as I can budget them in? I'd like to be able to keep them sharp and I know buying the right materials is good in the long run, but not sure I could splurge for all 3 at the moment.

Would it be worth getting the Shapton pros?

[ken123]

Start with a 1k stone first. You are building a tree and the 1k is a good starting point. Either series will do here. You could go with a 1k and 5k stone sequence too for now.

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Ken

[Jason H]

You could go with a 1k and 5k stone sequence too for now.

These things always start out sounding so simple.

[Mistabob_dob]

I know how it goes with hobbies/things like these... slippery slope for sure.

Worth getting a strop kit with diamond paste? I'm thinking about doing the shapton pro 1k/5k, already have a ceramic rod, but idk how essential stropping is.

[ken123]

I'm certainly a fan of stropping, but first you should get good at 1k stones, then you can add strops later.

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Ken

[lsboogy]

I'm one of those who learned to sharpen on Arkansas stones (dad - tools and pocket knives) and Belgian stones (mom - kitchen knives). Arkansas stones can get quite fine in grit - I have a very old translucent red and near clear set that are finer than 8K - I would guess them to be about 10 and 12K. And the don't dish easily. But as Ken notes, get ready for a workout and set some time aside. I find it much easier to sharpen on a stone that I can feel, so I like muddy softer whetstones from Japan, just my preference. Guy I hang with occasionally is a luthier - he uses Japanese tools and sharpens on Arkansas stones - his tools are as sharp as my knives, and some of the wood he works with is really spendy.

[ChefKnivesToGo]

Is is feasible to buy one of those stones for now and then pick up others as I can budget them in? I'd like to be able to keep them sharp and I know buying the right materials is good in the long run, but not sure I could splurge for all 3 at the moment.

Would it be worth getting the Shapton pros?

Yes the Shapton pro 1K would be a good first stone and you could use it in combination with your fine Arkansas.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/shpro10.html

[Mistabob_dob]

Perfect, thank you all for the advice!

[ChefKnivesToGo]

You’re welcome. Come back after you use it and let us know what you think.

[Mistabob_dob]

I will!

I have one last question - I saw a chart comparing grits of Arkansas to Japanese water stones and the soft Arkansas is about 1000 grit and hard Arkansas is about 2000, would it make sense to get 1k Shapton?

Or how should I incorporate the Shapton into my sharpening progression? Use it alone or after the soft followed by the hard every time I reshaprnen a knife? Or just skip to Shapton to touch up my knives?

[jmcnelly85]

Getting a coarse waterstone to get all of the heavy lifting done would be how I would approach the situation if I planned on keeping the Arkansas’ as part of the routine. Shapton pro 220, 320, or glass 500 will save you a lot of time. You could touch up your knives on your finest stone and when that no longer is giving adequate results drop down to the coarse.

Edit: I’m not 100 percent certain how well the Arkansas stones will fare on blue super.

[Mistabob_dob]

OK cool, saving time is definitely a plus for me. So maybe the 500 + 1k or 2k Shapton pros for now and then eventually grab the 5k and stropping kit?

[jmcnelly85]

That sounds like a great strategy. Don’t underestimate how sharp a knife can get with your coarsest stone. The sharper you get it early, the sharper it will be later.

[Mistabob_dob]

Great, thank you for the tips!

[Radar53]

Hi There Bob and welcome to the forum. You will always get a variety of options & advice here haha.

If I was in your shoes I would consider one of the combination stones depending on what shape your current knives are in. If your knives are in some sort of reasonable shape I would go for the Cerax 1k / 3k combo & you can find it here https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ceraxcombo1k3k.html I use this stone in my travel kit and I think that it's a really good stone and grit combination.

If your knives are not in some sort of reasonable state and / or they need minor repairs then I would go for a coarser combination like the Cerax 280 / 1500 stone found here https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ceco28.html This will give you a good coarse stone and 1500 finish is still a pretty good final grit for most work around the kitchen. If you wanted to get a finer finish then you could follow that with the finer of your two Arkansas stones, which should be pretty easy if you have already done the heavy lifting.

A third option if your knives are not in good shape or have chips etc would be the Nubatama 150 / 1200 (I think that is the grit combination???), which you can get direct from Ken123 (see his details at the bottom of one of his posts above. Again for the meantime, you could finish this on your Arkansas stones as previously.

Not trying to add confusion here, but just another option to consider. All done for USD50 to 55.