Shapton Pro vs Glass

CKTG has a large amount of Edge Pro products so we've dedicated a forum to questions on Edge Pro sharpening systems, accessories and techniques.
Post Reply
doulos
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:16 pm

Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by doulos » Sun Apr 01, 2018 1:04 pm

Ive been using My Edge Pro for a while now and bought my first Shaptons a little while ago. All I can say is "why did I wait so long?" I only bought the Pro 1K and 5K. The 1K cuts pretty good. It cuts about like between a EP 220 and 400. The 5K is nice also. Takes out a lot of the scratch pattern left . Im going to pick up the 320. I doubt I would need more than those 3 and then finish the knife on a leather strop. My question is this ..... HOw do the PRO Shaptons compare to the GLASS? Do they cut about the same? Are the grits comparable?

User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 10316
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Jeff B » Sun Apr 01, 2018 9:55 pm

I think they are comparable in speed but the SG cuts PM steels better.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

Barashka
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:35 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Barashka » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:37 pm

If the edge pro stones are anything like the full size ones then: speed is similar, both should be fast. Shapton PRO is supposedly more for traditional blue/white steels and SG is for more powdered steels, but in practice, both will perform similar unless you're cutting something really really hard. Feel on SG is a bit more chalky but responsive, Pros might be a little more dull / "boring" I heard them described (not sure that matters on edge pro sizes). SG is a touch softer then PROs but still very hard.
Between 320 /1k / 5k I think you have entire range covered. However, for really coarse side side consider just getting diamond plates, they are a great alternative to coarse stones.
edit: note that "feel" differs for people quite a bit and some, I'm sure, would say PROs feel just as good/better for them then SG.

User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 10316
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Jeff B » Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:03 am

Barashka wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:37 pm
...some, I'm sure, would say PROs feel just as good/better for them then SG.
Neither are worth writing home about.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

User avatar
mauichef
Posts: 2194
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:10 pm
Location: Maui, Hawaii
Contact:

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by mauichef » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:48 am

Jeff B wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:03 am
Barashka wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:37 pm
...some, I'm sure, would say PROs feel just as good/better for them then SG.
Neither are worth writing home about.
Now that has opened up a discussion for sure.
So mate...do explain.
I have never used Shapton stones so I am curious about this subject. Especially after having looked at the video posted by "nakneker".

Barashka
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 8:35 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Barashka » Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:32 pm

mauichef wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:48 am
Jeff B wrote:
Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:03 am
Barashka wrote:
Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:37 pm
...some, I'm sure, would say PROs feel just as good/better for them then SG.
Neither are worth writing home about.
Now that has opened up a discussion for sure.
So mate...do explain.
I have never used Shapton stones so I am curious about this subject. Especially after having looked at the video posted by "nakneker".
He might mean that both are synthetic and may not feel as good as any of the natural. (that I don't have any so I can't really comment).
Or some people really like softer synthetic stones feel ... and feel no difference between pro and SG as they are pretty close in hardness.
And even more people like the feel of soaking stones so much more than any splash and go.

User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 10316
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Jeff B » Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:16 pm

Both lines of Shapton are very hard and neither give back a lot of feedback. The little audible and sensational feedback you do get is a little different between the lines but as to which is better is totally personal preference. I think either line is an acquired taste and where you start might determine which you prefer. At the end of the day, both lines perform well and give good results on most any steel. As to which is better comes down to the end user. After trying both I prefer the Pro line but can totally understand the user that prefers the Glass line.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4712
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Kit Craft » Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:50 am

I would say that tactile feedback in and of itself is just fine for most stones in both lines, that is, when the stone tells you where your edge is. I guess this is where it gets confusing because some say the feel of the stone, be it chalky, glassy, creamy etc is feedback and others put it into its own catagory. Now, I think this is where people stop caring for shapton stones. Not so much because of mute stone that does not allow you to read it in use but because said stones feel odd in use when compared to more conventional stones such as King. However, when compared to many of the other offerings such as Naniwa Chosera I think this issue of feel is totally blown out of proportion. Yeah, they feel different but not so much so that I find either/any line so unpleasant to use that I would toss them aside. Of course, there are exceptions to that rule and some stones do truly suck but I don't think they come from any of these lines.

Anyway, as for which line to use for the EP, both. I mix and match stones. Shapton pro 220, glass 500, pro 1k, pro 2k, glass 3k, glass 4k, glass 6k, pro 8k and pro 12/15k stones are the ones I like from each lineup. :) Totally personal preference and my being way too picky about small nits...Something I think most people wouldn't give a rats behind about, lol.

All good stones regardless. Even the 5k SP that I hate with a passion is functionally a good stone.

Disclaimer: I no longer use an EP and I freehand so take this for what it is worth.

ChipB
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:26 pm
Location: New York City

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by ChipB » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:41 pm

Kit Craft wrote:
Tue Apr 03, 2018 9:50 am
I would say that tactile feedback in and of itself is just fine for most stones in both lines, that is, when the stone tells you where your edge is. I guess this is where it gets confusing because some say the feel of the stone, be it chalky, glassy, creamy etc is feedback and others put it into its own catagory. Now, I think this is where people stop caring for shapton stones. Not so much because of mute stone that does not allow you to read it in use but because said stones feel odd in use when compared to more conventional stones such as King. However, when compared to many of the other offerings such as Naniwa Chosera I think this issue of feel is totally blown out of proportion. Yeah, they feel different but not so much so that I find either/any line so unpleasant to use that I would toss them aside. Of course, there are exceptions to that rule and some stones do truly suck but I don't think they come from any of these lines.

Anyway, as for which line to use for the EP, both. I mix and match stones. Shapton pro 220, glass 500, pro 1k, pro 2k, glass 3k, glass 4k, glass 6k, pro 8k and pro 12/15k stones are the ones I like from each lineup. :) Totally personal preference and my being way too picky about small nits...Something I think most people wouldn't give a rats behind about, lol.

All good stones regardless. Even the 5k SP that I hate with a passion is functionally a good stone.

Disclaimer: I no longer use an EP and I freehand so take this for what it is worth.
Very good point on "feedback". It can be a pretty nebulous term. I've described the Pro as providing more feedback than Glass in the past. I stand by that characterization, but it is probably worth a bit of clarification. I own a few higher grit j-nats that, objectively, provide very little feedback. That said, given their purpose/grit equivalent, I expect them to feel hard/sterile and the edge finish they produce is consistent in that regard. Glass stones, on the other hand, feel like a very refined/hard stone at a given grit level, yet cut like crazy. In short, they don't necessarily have objectively poor feedback, but the cutting characteristics don't really jive with how they feel. With the Pro line, the stones' cutting performance and edge finish seems to be more consistent with what I would expect given how it feels during use.

User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 10316
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Jeff B » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:44 am

And on feedback, we're talking about stones for the edge pro. How much does feedback really matter with a jig anyway....
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4712
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Kit Craft » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:30 am

Jeff B wrote:
Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:44 am
And on feedback, we're talking about stones for the edge pro. How much does feedback really matter with a jig anyway....
I've said the same thing but a lot of the guys that are into the EP say it is very important to them. Guess it is something you have to mesh well with to get the feeling, idk.

ChipB
Posts: 301
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:26 pm
Location: New York City

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by ChipB » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:42 pm

Feedback, and anticipating how a knife will respond to a stone, is very important on the EP. While I think jigs can produce the most consistent and precise edge bevels possible, sharpening also takes a very, very long time compared to freehand. While one COULD create continuous contact with a thin EP stone across an edge length (if the jig's arm/holder could accommodate a long enough stone, which it can't), the curvature of a knife's edge vs. spine angle, grind, and arc associated with compass-like design of jig precludes this. Practically, this means less metal meeting stone in a given stroke. I find this translates to ~3-4x more time spent per progression on the EP vs freehand. Removing a knife to inspect the edge during a progression can add quite a bit of time to the process in and off itself. Hence, being able to intuit, through feedback and experience, how a knife/stone combination is behaving makes a world of difference as it relates to time spent on the jig. With j-nats, this becomes even more important as the buildup of mud can make it difficult to feel for a burr by touch. Also, if the goal is to minimize removal of steel, having a connection with a stone's cutting performance is equally as important.

Radar53
Posts: 820
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Radar53 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:46 pm

I agree with @ ChipB regarding the extra time it takes to achieve something if using the EP vs full sized stones. It was one of the first things I noticed once I started to freehand & that extra real estate is great when trying to reset a bevel for sure.

In terms of feel, I have Nubatamas Bamboo 150, 5k & 10k and a Platinum 1k, SG's 220, 500 1k, 2k, the EP1200 (5k) plus 4 various rubbish Chinese jobs (that are not a rubbishy as I expected them to be :o ). And just like their big brothers, I can certainly feel the difference(s). I'm guessing that many EP users probably don't look for the "feel" because perhaps with the angle fixed they don't have to, along with the fact that it might be a bit more muted with only the smaller width of the stone in actual contact with the edge.

But it is there and my take is that because I don't have to worry so much on maintaining the angle, I can concentrate more on the feedback.

EDIT: Changed "blade" for "stone" in the second to last line. Sorry
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4712
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Kit Craft » Wed Apr 25, 2018 11:15 pm

Radar53 wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:46 pm
I agree with @ ChipB regarding the extra time it takes to achieve something if using the EP vs full sized stones. It was one of the first things I noticed once I started to freehand & that extra real estate is great when trying to reset a bevel for sure.

In terms of feel, I have Nubatamas Bamboo 150, 5k & 10k and a Platinum 1k, SG's 220, 500 1k, 2k, the EP1200 (5k) plus 4 various rubbish Chinese jobs (that are not a rubbishy as I expected them to be :o ). And just like their big brothers, I can certainly feel the difference(s). I'm guessing that many EP users probably don't look for the "feel" because perhaps with the angle fixed they don't have to, along with the fact that it might be a bit more muted with only the smaller width of the stone in actual contact with the edge.

But it is there and my take is that because I don't have to worry so much on maintaining the angle, I can concentrate more on the feedback.

EDIT: Changed "blade" for "stone" in the second to last line. Sorry
Give it time and you won't even think about the angle while freehand either. It will just be there. So I think it all comes down to what one is used to.

Radar53
Posts: 820
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Radar53 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 5:59 pm

Hi Kit. Yes I know that you are right and it's part of the changes / differences I've noticed between the EP & freehand. For freehand, I'm still at the stage of building muscle memory & so I use the freehand angle guides to help with this. Already on my beater knives I don't even bother with the guides so I hear you.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

AndyV
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by AndyV » Wed May 23, 2018 3:09 pm

I would like to add my question to this topic.

I'm finally getting around to ordering a sharpener and am probably getting the EP system.

I bought a couple R2 knives here and from what I've been reading above and in other topics, it sounds like Shapton Glass is preferred for that steel vs Shapton Pro. The 2nd reply, above, comments that in practice they will both perform similarly unless the steel is really hard... I'm not sure if that fits the description of R2.

I'm considering getting the EP Essential Set, which is listed as having 3 Shapton Pro stones. (I'll be adding some additional accessories, but they are pretty much the same no matter what stone set is suggested.)

Any comments on "Yes, go ahead with that" vs "No, get the Shapton Glass stones instead"?

Thanks.

Andy

Radar53
Posts: 820
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Radar53 » Wed May 23, 2018 5:58 pm

I haven't used any Pro stones so can't comment on them. The general concensus on the forum seems to be that there is not too much to differentiate between Glass & Pro considering feel.

If your thinking is leaning towards hard PM steels, then again the general concensus seems to suggest that Glass might be the way to go.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 10316
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by Jeff B » Wed May 23, 2018 7:56 pm

R2 is not that difficult a PM to sharpen and is actually pretty fine grained. Either of the Shapton lines will handle it no problem.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

AndyV
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Apr 21, 2017 1:17 pm

Re: Shapton Pro vs Glass

Post by AndyV » Thu May 24, 2018 12:54 pm

Jeff B wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 7:56 pm
R2 is not that difficult a PM to sharpen and is actually pretty fine grained. Either of the Shapton lines will handle it no problem.
Thanks -- and I finally remembered that I can search the forum better using google than the built-in search function and found more topics confirming what you said about R2 not needing other stones, so I'm just going to go ahead with the essentials kit.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest