Coarse stones for EP

CKTG has a large amount of Edge Pro products so we've dedicated a forum to questions on Edge Pro sharpening systems, accessories and techniques.
Post Reply
LostHighway
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:23 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Coarse stones for EP

Post by LostHighway » Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:34 am

I have the SG500/1k/4k and am looking for a coarser stone to slot in below the 500, probably something in the 220 to 320 range. I'm certainly open to another Shapton in either SG or SP range but the Chosera 400, Nubatama Bamboo Black 220 and Nubatama Bamboo Platinum 320 are also on my radar. My personal knives are mostly Wustoffs or W2, B2 or AS Japanese knives but the coarse stone is most likely to see use on friend's very dull Chicago Cutlery, Victorinox, Shun,... Any advice would be appreciated.

User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 10485
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by Jeff B » Tue Jul 03, 2018 1:46 pm

I'd go with the 220 of your choice. 320-400 is just too close to the 500 to make that big a difference.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

Radar53
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by Radar53 » Tue Jul 03, 2018 3:11 pm

Hi There LH. +1 on Jeff's 220. I have the SG220 and it is my least favourite and least used stone. I find it scratchier that I would expect, it didn't initially cut very well to start with. I gave it a good flattening just in case there was a slight crust on it which improved things a little but not a lot. YMMV. I got this because the Nub220 Black was OOS. I should have waited.

I have & really like the Nub150 Bamboo and, as per my other recent posts, I can get different finishes & scratch patterns by varying the amount of water on the stone, the pressure used & / or the amount of mud yet easily make the jump to my SG500.

If you are after something like a 220 grit, I would talk to Ken123 of this forum and ask him about the Nubatama 180 or 220 Black stones. I still wish I'd waited for that Nub220 Black :roll:
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

LostHighway
Posts: 97
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2018 4:23 pm
Location: Minneapolis

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by LostHighway » Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:07 am

I've decided to try the Nubatama 220 Bamboo Black for the EP. I wont be able to compare it to the SG220 but it seems like a reasonable experiment. I think my only concern is keeping it adequately wet but we shall see.

Radar53
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by Radar53 » Wed Jul 04, 2018 6:12 pm

Keeping it wet is pretty easy. My Nub150 is a thirsty stone, but it's also quite small & what I do is put it in a small tray of water (stone side up & covered) while I set up the rest of my gear. Generally by the time I'm set up, the small bubbles have ceased and it's good to go. I dry the stone off a little & mount it. From there I control the moisture by turning it stone side up & horizontal then using a small squirt bottle to add water until I get to where I want it. I generally wait 20 odd seconds for the stone to absorb what it wants & then if I've got too much I just dab the excess off using a small micro cloth. Step & repeat as often as necessary.

Please come back & let us know what you think of the Nub220
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

JoeWheels
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by JoeWheels » Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:07 pm

It's hard to beat the Atoma 140 for a coarse stone on the Edge Pro.
SG 220 or Nub 150 (I use them both) clean up any deeper scratches before heading off to 320 ville.

True, the SG 220 might not be the most quick, or pleasant stone, but it does do the job.
Still a big step up from the stock Boride stone IMO.
Mine was considerably better after typical flattening procedure too.

Radar53
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by Radar53 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:06 am

JoeWheels wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 7:07 pm
Still a big step up from the stock Boride stone IMO.
Hi Joe, Yes, I think that you will find most EP users, who switch from the standard EP stones, would agree with you. I persevered way too long with the standard stones and now have a very nice selection and variety of third party stones. The higher grit, standard EP stones, eg their 1000, 1200 & above) are actually really good finishing stones, once the heavy lifting has been done by significantly more aggressive, third party coarse & medium grit alternatives. 8-)
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

JoeWheels
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by JoeWheels » Mon Aug 06, 2018 10:53 am

It's funny how with some perseverance and commitment we can usually get the job done with tools on hand.
That said, I feel fortunate enough to have started on the Edge Pro with the Shapton Glass stones like the OP.

As time went on I filled in the stones for tighter progression, lower and higher grits, so now SG 220 to 16K.
Eventually as the different steels exposed my shortcomings (thank you Maxamet,) the need for harder stones,
and also softer stones with more feel, narrow stones, strops, sprays, etc. became apparent.
Little by little all these other options became part of the kit, including the EP boride stones,
partly to see if I was missing something, partly to try with softer steels.

Depending on what I'm cleaning, reshaping, reprofiling, thinning, polishing, or simply sharpening, it's nice to have an assortment of tools for the job.
As I attempt to improve modern powdered metal folders, to big softer tougher swords, to antique European and Japanese shears, to ceramic knives,
to quality kitchen knives of various metals and sizes, it's been nice to have those Edge Pro options;
Atoma plates, Diamaker resin bond "stones," the Shapton Glass stones, Nubatama Arashiyama Kitayama Suehiro in a range from 150 to 20K,
all employed regularly project dependent. Most likely CBN metallic plates arriving in the future.

LostHighway- I'm curious how you're getting on with the Nub 220, assuming you've received that.
My Nub 320 gets plenty of action, the 150 less frequently.
Also, do consider Atoma 140 and 400 if you haven't already. Simply put; they can save a lot of grief.

Radar53- I'm curious about your travails through the third party stones, but perhaps that's fuel for separate discussion?

Best to all,
Joe

Radar53
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by Radar53 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:03 pm

Joe, I can answer this pretty quickly. My first foray into third party stones was SG 500, 1k & 2k and that was a chalk & cheese revelation. Shortly thereafter I donated all my EP stones to a friend, except for the EP1200 (JIS 5k equivalent), which I've kept and like.

Next I bought a second hand , but not much used, Nubatama 150, which I love. Supplemented the above with Nubatama 5k & 10k bamboos when wanting to reinstate a kasumi finish, on a W#2, single bevel, project knife and these are very cool stones. The EP1200 leaves a nice mirror finish as compared to the Nub5k, which leaves more of an etched finish with greater toothiness. Then got the SG220 as per my comments above.

Got introduced to 3M diamond films somewhere in the above process and man they are just the business IMO - 120 grit way up to 150,000 grit. Aggressive as.

Lastly, I got the Nub 1k Platinum, which is also a great stone.

Somewhere along the way I inherited a set of Chinese knockoffs. Interestingly, they surprised me with how they went - maybe I just wasn't expecting very much from them :o .
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

JoeWheels
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by JoeWheels » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:59 pm

Hi Grant-

Clearly we've hijacked the thread by now, but in case not quite-
Just noticed your below signature quote.
Adding to that; for years I've said, "Paranoia is just knowing the facts!"
And, "the question isn't whether you're paranoid, but if you're paranoid enough!"

Sure wish second hand Nubatama Edge Pro stones would show up around here.
My set goes 150, then Plat. 320, 600,1500, 3K.

Joe

Radar53
Posts: 831
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by Radar53 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:27 pm

hahaha!! "If you're paranoid enough", that's when the fun starts and that's when the best conspiracy theories evolve :twisted:

yeah, I'm pretty happy with my collection of EP stones now, so can't see much changing there for a while. Forgot to say with the 3M tapes as well as being aggressive cutters they leave a very nice & consistent scratch pattern - much nicer than the equivalent Atoma stone(s).

For freehand I have the Nub150 brick, Kohetsu 800 brick & Kohetsu 2k, Cerax 6k, older version of the 8k Snow White plus a Cerax 1k / 3k combo. I need a lot more pracitce here, but certainly can't blame the stones :mrgreen:
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

JoeWheels
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by JoeWheels » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:32 am

Maybe now we've come around again to LostHighway's original subject.

More often than not knives that are really dull, damaged, or those needing thinning, get to the bench stones first.
One can do a lot with Atoma 140, Nub 150, etc.
Big repairs or changes are possible without belt sanders, grinders, etc. if you're willing, on the full sized stones.
What time gets lost is made up in satisfaction.

Seems the beauty of the Edge Pro is really dialing it all in for the most refinement once that stuff is out of the way.
20 minutes to run through full tight progression sharpening is pretty damn cool, especially when you feel it couldn't be any sharper.
Getting down to .5 or .25 micron at the end starts to make sense too when the angle can be held perfectly the whole way.
Angle cube, drill stop collars, and USB microscope are a necessary part of the equation for me.

Certain knives I'll just keep going with the higher grit bench stones, when it's less critical, or just to enjoy it.

Overall using the Edge Pro and bench stones together each seems to improve the other.

Sorry if this is all so obvious.
In summary; the best coarse stone for the Edge Pro might be full sized coarse stones.

Peace,
Joe

Jason H
Posts: 255
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:26 pm

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by Jason H » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:03 am

LostHighway wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:34 am
My personal knives are mostly Wustoffs or W2, B2 or AS Japanese knives but the coarse stone is most likely to see use on friend's very dull Chicago Cutlery, Victorinox, Shun,... Any advice would be appreciated.
For knives that have never been sharpened, very dull, or damaged, I always start with a 140 diamond plate. Just a few passes on each side is all it takes.

BillyJack
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2017 6:19 pm

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by BillyJack » Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:54 am

Where are these Nubatama Stones being sold at for the EP? I am not able to find them anywhere.

jacko9
Posts: 1772
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:51 pm
Location: SF Bay Area, Ca

Re: Coarse stones for EP

Post by jacko9 » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:32 am

BillyJack wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:54 am
Where are these Nubatama Stones being sold at for the EP? I am not able to find them anywhere.

Contact Ken;

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2804

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest