Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

CKTG has a large amount of Edge Pro products so we've dedicated a forum to questions on Edge Pro sharpening systems, accessories and techniques.
jameelm
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by jameelm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:11 pm

Hello all,

I’ve have an Edge Pro Apex that when I go to sharpen seems to have a clattering or vibrating sort of motion on the “push-in” stroke. It seems as though something is abrading the rod as it passes through the black plastic piece. Is this a normal occurrence? Is it a bad idea to spray WD-40 on a paper towel and wipe down that section of the rod?

gladius
Posts: 3757
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by gladius » Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:40 pm

Try cleaning rod with solvent and then apply dry lubricant if required.

JoeWheels
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by JoeWheels » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:00 pm

I just clean everything well with plain water and paper towels.
Smooth as a whistle.
Try to keep water, swarf, grit etc. from dribbling down into there.

If you do resort to lube, be sure to keep it at a minimum and away from your stones!

Joe

jameelm
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by jameelm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:18 pm

gladius wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:40 pm
Try cleaning rod with solvent and then apply dry lubricant if required.
Pardon my ignorance. Is there a particular solvent to use, or is that a brand? And I'm don't know dry lubricant vs. an alternative.

Thanks for the reply!

jameelm
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by jameelm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:24 pm

JoeWheels wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:00 pm
I just clean everything well with plain water and paper towels.
Yes. I tried this on several occasions, but it didn't seem to remedy the problem.
JoeWheels wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:00 pm
Try to keep water, swarf, grit etc. from dribbling down into there.
It's my best guess that that's precisely what happened. I didn't want to damage the machine in the process of fixing it. I fancied that I wasn't the only one this happened to.

Thanks for the reply!

JoeWheels
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by JoeWheels » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:31 pm

You could try lifting the back of the rig so water is less inclined to wander that direction.

gladius
Posts: 3757
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by gladius » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:33 pm

jameelm wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:18 pm
gladius wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 4:40 pm
Try cleaning rod with solvent and then apply dry lubricant if required.
Pardon my ignorance. Is there a particular solvent to use, or is that a brand? And I'm don't know dry lubricant vs. an alternative.

Thanks for the reply!
---
Acetone, denatured alcohol, turpentine and mineral spirits are common cleaning solvents you can find at most hardware/paint stores.

A dry spray lubricant like RZ50: http://www.rz-50.com or Dupont Teflon: http://www.performancelubricantsusa.com ... ricant.php will work well.

JoeWheels
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by JoeWheels » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:35 pm

Otherwise keep it all clean clean clean, wiping it all down frequently.
Slows things down a little, but that could be a good thing.
You might be using too much water as well?
Stock stones?

jameelm
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by jameelm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:38 pm

JoeWheels wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:00 pm
Try to keep water, swarf, grit etc. from dribbling down into there.
Am I right that a little swarf while sharpening is normative, necessary, and/or preferred when sharpening with the Edge Pro?

I know that the stock stones soak up the water pretty quickly (they've often seemed to dry before I even turn the arm back over), and I've had it in mind from my failed freehand efforts that there should be a little slurry. That said, moisture and an upside down surface with moisture on it never seemed to be what was intended.

If water is used, but everything for the most part otherwise looks dry, is that doing it wrong? I often added water once I saw metal being removed to keep from clogging up the stone.

JoeWheels
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by JoeWheels » Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:54 pm

Keeping the stone wet is good.
Necessary really, and yes, some swarf is required too.
Some stones work better with a little mud, but not so dribbly.
Clogging up the stone isn't a problem really, just keep it wet.
If it seems it's not cutting anymore you can rinse the stone.
Everyone has their own technique, but I wipe the face of the stone with a finger to distribute the water too.

When adding water I always wipe the sides and back of the stone, the holder blocks, etc.
It only takes a second.

Otherwise, whenever you stop or pause for any reason, keep the stone facing up.

Sorry to repeat, but raising the back of the rig keeps wet stuff where it belongs.

jameelm
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by jameelm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:00 pm

JoeWheels wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:35 pm
Otherwise keep it all clean clean clean, wiping it all down frequently.
Slows things down a little, but that could be a good thing.
You might be using too much water as well?
Stock stones?
You may be right about the water. I know the experience often entailed plenty of wiping in between steps. I probably go wrong waiting for kids to sleep before sitting down to sharpen. Sometimes the late hour finds me tired and irritable and impatient. Yes, I've been using the stock stones. Shapton Glass 500/1000/2000 are due for delivery tomorrow.
JoeWheels wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 5:54 pm
Sorry to repeat, but raising the back of the rig keeps wet stuff where it belongs.
I guess I have to look at how to prop the whole rig up. I use the flattening glass to anchor the machine when sharpening.

Radar53
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by Radar53 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:37 pm

Hi there jameelm. A couple of things here;

1) Make sure that your stones are damp but do not have any "free" water that can collect stone dust and run down into the plastic block. I use a microcloth to dab any excess water on the stones.
2) I use spray on silicon aerosol for both cleaning and lube here. So I remove the stone arm & take it outside (so you don't contaminate anything else with silicon) spray it and wipe until the cloth is clean. Secondly, I spray a small piece of cloth (1" X 1") until wet and push it through the plastic block, pulling it backward & forwards until clean. Don't use CRC56 or WD40 as these may cause the plastic to expand and make the problem worse.
3) Then reassemble and keep any grinding residues away from the plastic block.

If you are still having problems then here is the next solution that I used. Change the brass tube spacer for the "quick change spring" here https://www.chefknivestogo.com/edprocospfor.html Then VERY carefully drill out the plastic block hole for the stone arm. So that is the drill size has to be exactly the outside diameter of the brass tube. Cut the brass tube to be about 5mm longer than the hole in the plastic block and carefully insert the brass tube into the block so that a couple of mm of the brass tube extend out of either end of the block. Insert the stone arm and make sure you still do 1,2 & 3 above.

The ultimate solution is to do the <sharpknives> rod mods. This not cheap but is a great solution for the above and other limitations of the EdgePro. There is plenty of posts about this on the old forum.

Also, if you are still using the standard EP stones consider trying a couple of good third party stones. They are night & day better.

Best of luck & please come back with any further queries
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

JoeWheels
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by JoeWheels » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:29 pm

I found the rodmod to be the most finicky, chattery, clean dependent,
likely because it's metal to metal rather than metal to plastic?

Radar53
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by Radar53 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:05 pm

@Joe. Once I've got the rod into the rod bearing, mine is smooth & doesn't chatter. I am pretty OCD about keeping it all clean and using the aerosol silicon spray for lube.

What I do find, when grinding really acute angles, say 10º & under, is that the "swing" of the arm side-to-side gets to be a bit more limited. This is not a problem with the rod bearing per se, but more an issue of the overall geometry of the EP Apex. So I end up sharpening the knife by "sections", which can be interesting!
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

JoeWheels
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by JoeWheels » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:25 pm

Radar53 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:05 pm
What I do find, when grinding really acute angles, say 10º & under, is that the "swing" of the arm side-to-side gets to be a bit more limited. This is not a problem with the rod bearing per se, but more an issue of the overall geometry of the EP Apex. So I end up sharpening the knife by "sections", which can be interesting!

Ditto with the "swing."
I try to keep all stone and metal contact on the table,
mostly to reduce angle discrepancies.
Recently sharpened a few long knives for a friend, like machetes and a stonkin" Gaucho knife.
That's a lot of repositiong, "sectioning" and overlapping!

jameelm
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:05 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by jameelm » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:42 pm

Radar53 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:37 pm
Hi there jameelm.
Hey Grant!
Radar53 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:37 pm
1) Make sure that your stones are damp but do not have any "free" water that can collect stone dust and run down into the plastic block. I use a microcloth to dab any excess water on the stones.
This is helpful. I think I thought it needed to be just beyond damp to work. So the water is more about keeping the stone damp, than keeping the metal bits from gumming up in the stone? Just trying to determine if I need to disabuse myself of the idea of 'swarf doing the work' as it concerns the Edge Pro system.
Radar53 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:37 pm
2) I use spray on silicon aerosol for both cleaning and lube here. So I remove the stone arm & take it outside (so you don't contaminate anything else with silicon) spray it and wipe until the cloth is clean. Secondly, I spray a small piece of cloth (1" X 1") until wet and push it through the plastic block, pulling it backward & forwards until clean. Don't use CRC56 or WD40 as these may cause the plastic to expand and make the problem worse.
Thanks for the suggestion. WD-40 is all I have around the house (almost exclusively for when door hinges in the house and on the vehicles were squeaky), but I will look into the silicone.

To clarify, you use the silicone to clean the stone arm when done sharpening, and you use it to lubricate the <sharpknives> rod mod assembly?
Radar53 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:37 pm
If you are still having problems then here is the next solution that I used. Change the brass tube spacer for the "quick change spring" here https://www.chefknivestogo.com/edprocospfor.html
I actually have the spring and the drill bit collar on order with the Shapton Glass stones. Picked up an angle cube from Amazon, so hopefully I can see some improvement in my results.
Radar53 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:37 pm
Then VERY carefully drill out the plastic block hole for the stone arm. So that is the drill size has to be exactly the outside diameter of the brass tube. Cut the brass tube to be about 5mm longer than the hole in the plastic block and carefully insert the brass tube into the block so that a couple of mm of the brass tube extend out of either end of the block. Insert the stone arm and make sure you still do 1,2 & 3 above.
Radar53 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:37 pm
The ultimate solution is to do the <sharpknives> rod mods. This not cheap but is a great solution for the above and other limitations of the EdgePro. There is plenty of posts about this on the old forum.
I was searching the old forums briefly for the <sharpknives> rod mod before I had to start dinner prep. Is it a DIY thing or a "I happily hand someone money to solve the problem and send me the solution" sort of thing?
Radar53 wrote:
Wed Aug 08, 2018 6:37 pm
Also, if you are still using the standard EP stones consider trying a couple of good third party stones. They are night & day better.

Best of luck & please come back with any further queries
I'm definitely looking forward to the stones. Thanks for the resources and the welcome.

Radar53
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by Radar53 » Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:57 pm

1) jaleem wrote ~ "This is helpful. I think I thought it needed to be just beyond damp to work. So the water is more about keeping the stone damp, than keeping the metal bits from gumming up in the stone? Just trying to determine if I need to disabuse myself of the idea of 'swarf doing the work' as it concerns the Edge Pro system."

Sorry jaleem I've only given you half the answer here. So I start out as above, but then every dozen or more strokes on each side I turn the stone face side up put on just enough water to make it wet, then rub it down with a microcloth to clean it and leave it moist for the next step & repeat. You'll get the hang of how may strokes after a while, it varies with a whole lot of things and I don't actually count any more. One last thing is I put a few drops of dishwash liquid in each small bottle of water, which I find helps.

2) jaleem wrote ~ "To clarify, you use the silicone to clean the stone arm when done sharpening, and you use it to lubricate the <sharpknives> rod mod assembly?"

For the standard EP set-up I start each sharpening session by cleaning & lubricating the stone arm with silicon spray. Only the bit of the stone arm that doesn’t hold the stone. I also spray silicon onto small amount of fabric and use this to clean & lubricate the hole in the plastic block that the stone arm goes into that’s on the vertical shaft.

3) Brass tube spacer mod. Here is a picture https://www.dropbox.com/s/hq1l93axqftfv ... 6.jpg?dl=0
If you look carefully you can see the brass tube just sticking out of both ends of the plastic block on the vertical “angle” shaft.

4) Sharpknives Rod Mods. He was selling these at the time, but I’ve no idea if he has any left or what, as he hasn’t moved across to the new forum. If it’s something that you want to explore ONE OF THE FORUM MODS might be able to put you in touch. Its pretty much plug & play with the more recent versions of the EP Apex I think. Mine is a really old model & I needed to do some mods.

Hope this helps
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

Radar53
Posts: 795
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by Radar53 » Thu Aug 09, 2018 12:09 am

Joe wrote " I try to keep all stone and metal contact on the table,
mostly to reduce angle discrepancies.
Recently sharpened a few long knives for a friend, like machetes and a stonkin" Gaucho knife.
That's a lot of repositiong, "sectioning" and overlapping!"

Hi Joe, yes I hear you, even with a 240 it can be a mission - machetes, I thought that was files were designed for :o
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

Jason H
Posts: 203
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:26 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by Jason H » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:52 pm

Hello All,

Lot's of good advice here and I'll add my two cents. For myself, I have found that chatter indicates either a 1) dry stone, 2) dished, unflat, or loaded up stone 3) the stone is not matching the angle of the blade. I have found #3 to be the most common cause of chatter.

Carry on!

JoeWheels
Posts: 20
Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:59 pm

Re: Sticky Edge Pro Angle Arm

Post by JoeWheels » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:18 pm

Jason H wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:52 pm
Hello All,

Lot's of good advice here and I'll add my two cents. For myself, I have found that chatter indicates either a 1) dry stone, 2) dished, unflat, or loaded up stone 3) the stone is not matching the angle of the blade. I have found #3 to be the most common cause of chatter.

Carry on!
Hi Jason,

Are you talking Edge Pro here?
If so, I'm curious as to which stones you're using.
If I were to set the stone at an angle different from the blade,
it would simply cut at the new angle, no fuss at all.

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