Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

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Steve_Oh
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Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Steve_Oh » Sat Aug 19, 2017 11:09 pm

So, first post here...and I've searched for the last 24h on prior topics and discussions so I wasn't reposting again.
Quick background on myself.
I have used and re-sold A Sharpmaker, DMT complete stone set, and Wicked Edge due to either not being happy with results, inconsistency, or just not liking the system.
I got "gifted" a slightly used Edge Pro Professional, without stones.
My question to everyone is, if you had to re-start your stone collection and had $400 to do it...what would you pick? I've done research, weighed pros and cons, and for me; my top 3 qualities in a stone would be quality of results, ease of use, and minimal to no lapping/maintenance. I will be re-profiling approx 15 knives, from cheap kitchen high carbon cleavers to my nice M390 Bark Rivers.
I keep coming back to the Atoma and Shapton Glass.
I'd like to get the Atoma full line...140, 400, 600, 1200. And then from there have the Shapton take over at 2k, 4K, 8k.
What does anyone Think of that combo? Overkill on the Atoma?
Thoughts?
Thanks. Looking forward to some suggestions.

gladius
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by gladius » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:44 am

Welcome.

I'd also go with Atoma and Shapton Glass but use a 140 & 400 followed by a SG 500, 2k & 16k. The stones 500 and lower will do the bulk of the work.

Steve_Oh
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Steve_Oh » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:21 am

Wow. That simplifies it quite a bit. Thank you! You think I'd need a SG in between the 2k and 16k?

Radar53
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Radar53 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:37 am

Hi Steve & welcome to the forum.

Tell us a little of what you're wanting to achieve and what sort of edges are you like, what sort of steels will be your mainstays & most difficult. Refined vs toothy edges? Does the finish matter to you eg mirror vs kasumi (hazy)? Those things might also play into what stones and what progression would benefit you the most.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

Steve_Oh
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Steve_Oh » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:01 am

Hello Grant! Thanks for your time.
I will be mostly re profiling western style chefs/kitchen knives of the likes of Wusthof and Henckels that are 20+ years old, so they have the old wider angles set. I have a few Shun santukos that are mild/moderately chipped and dulled that need to be fixed up.
As far as other knives, there are about a dozen that I'd like to have a more consistent profile on those...and they are mostly mid level stainless knives from ZT, Benchmade, Camilius...but I have a few Elmax and M390 that I'd like to reprofile and polish up.
I guess I'd like a little more utilitarian and durable edge, but still appear to have a nice mirror polish.
On my Wicked Edge I felt I got a decent polish with the 1800gr ceramics and 2/1 micron strop; but I think I'd like to take the polish a little further than what the 1800s could give me.
As far as ultimate shine edge or hazier or toothier...I'd prefer something in the middle, as far as asthetics went. I really don't know if I'd need to go past the 8k SG, but I'm open to all suggestions.
Hope that helped in forming an opinion.
Thanks

Radar53
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Radar53 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:58 pm

Hi Steve. based on what you have detailed I would suggest a similar but slightly different progression as Gladius;
gladius wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:44 am
Welcome.

I'd also go with Atoma and Shapton Glass but use a 140 & 400 followed by a SG 500, 2k & 16k. The stones 500 and lower will do the bulk of the work.
In terms of a utility edge for "the likes of Wusthof and Henckels" I would suggest probably a 2k finish. Gives a somewhat toothy edge that the steel can support. However, at that grit you're probably not going to get much bling. So if you wanted to refine that edge you could add say a SG6k rather than a SG16k perhaps. (Gladius, I think I know where you're headed with the SG16k recommendation, but don't want to make any assumptions on your behalf.) The jumps SG500 to SG2k to SG6k are manageable with the euro steels, but might be a little more challenging on some of the EDC tool biased steels. Easy fix just add say a SG1k into the mix. BTW you can use the Atomas to flatten your synthetic stones.

HTH
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

gladius
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by gladius » Sun Aug 20, 2017 10:40 pm

Steve_Oh wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 2:21 am
Wow. That simplifies it quite a bit. Thank you! You think I'd need a SG in between the 2k and 16k?
------
That jump works on most steels. I suggested one of the sets Shapton actually put together. The Shapton Glass stones are strong and a one micron edge is keen and bright and is nice on folders. This set will probably work for you but if you encounter really wear resistant steels then simply add more stones. For reprofiling M390 you original list actually sounds solid.

See these videos of Stanley using the set on a Takamura R2 PM steel...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HyC9FDwjyS4

https://vimeo.com/75276117

Radar53
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Radar53 » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:12 pm

Hi gladius. Thanks for posting that info. I hadn't seen Stanley's video before & its looks pretty impressive. I have traditionally gone for a 2X progression for a number of reasons, but the video throws some questions at that for sure.

So does the SG16k take out all the SG2k scratch pattern with that small amount of effort or does produce a "hybrid" edge effect ie shiny on top & toothy below??
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

gladius
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by gladius » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:15 am

Radar53 wrote:
Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:12 pm
...So does the SG16k take out all the SG2k scratch pattern with that small amount of effort or does produce a "hybrid" edge effect ie shiny on top & toothy below??
-----
I haven't looked at that edge under magnification, but it looks mirror polished and feels extremely smooth; my guess the former as the 16k GS cuts fasts, I see swarf almost immediately.

Check out this old post on the Syderco forum about EP Shapton Glass stones. MadRookie writes:
16k - little swarf, fast cutter for a 16k, good feedback, smooth creamy feel, no clogging - impressive
...and that M390

Believe it or not

https://www.spyderco.com/forumII/viewtopic.php?t=56909

Steve_Oh
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Steve_Oh » Mon Aug 21, 2017 5:03 am

Wow, your responses have all been enlightening so far. I guess I initially was thinking too "scientific" and thinking of micron size when asking about the set and progression.
Basically the Atoma lineup would be 100u, 40u, 30u, 12u. (the 140-1200 respectively). And the SG would take over at 7u, 4u, 2u. (2k-8k)
Now after watching Stans videos, the other link to the Spyderco forum...Im even more confused.
So...Ill reiterate my original goals and ideal stone qualities. Reprofile 15 knives, working and long lasting edge. Ease of use, quality of stone, low maintenance of stone.

That being said, are there any Atomas and or SG you'd eliminate from my original list based off micron size and polish? Im thinking now that the Atoma 600 may be unnecessary and the jump from 140-400-1200 could be fine (for certain steels of course). And maybe the SG do a 2k-8k-16k?

What do those 6 stones look like to ya'll? The 3 Atomas at 140-400-1200 and SG at 2k-8k-16k? Looks like a decent progression on the micron size of things anyway. All those stones are in stock, so looking forward to getting them in as soon as I could get a blessing or two?

You guys are great. Thanks for the info so far

Steve

Radar53
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Radar53 » Mon Aug 21, 2017 7:30 pm

Hi gladius. That's great information. I've got quite a few SG stones 220,500,1k,2k,8k plus 4 Nubatamas & some others. Might have to play with bigger jumps and see what falls out. Thanks for taking the time to post this stuff.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

Steve_Oh
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Steve_Oh » Tue Aug 22, 2017 5:18 pm

Just wanted to update everyone on what I ended up getting, based on the recommendations, videos and blogs y'all suggested me to read/watch.

I got the Atoma 140, 600, 1200 grits. And the Shapton Glass 2000, 6000, 16000 grits. I think the micron progression isn't too big of a jump at any level.

I felt it was the best way to keep it simple, work well for my needs, and have something that I can start out with and possibly add stones as needed, or maybe not.

Thanks for everyones help

Steve

gladius
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by gladius » Tue Aug 22, 2017 6:07 pm

Good choices, I think that will work for you - let us know how they work.

Radar53
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Radar53 » Tue Aug 22, 2017 7:33 pm

Time to get into it. I'm really keen to hear what your thoughts are with this setup.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

Steve_Oh
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Joined: Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:15 pm

Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Steve_Oh » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:28 pm

Will do fellas! I already have my 1st 3 knives lined up for complete reprofile. I have an Old Hickory, Henckels, and a Shun Santuko...3 completely different knives, angles, and steels. Ill let y'all know how they go.

Steve

Steve_Oh
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Steve_Oh » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:44 pm

So...after 16 knives...from EDC to 14" meat slicers to 3" paring knives...I love my combo of stones. I feel the Atoma 140 to 600 to 1200 really does 95% of the work...and the SG really polish and fine tune the edge. I could probably stop at the Atoma 1200 for most of my work, but if I put in another 10 minutes with the SG they edge really gets nice. I have re-profied about half the the 16 knives Ive done and the Atoma 140 works well on some steel and not well on others; meaning I really gotta put in time and effort to re-profile. Once the 140 is done though, its just a matter of polishing up the edge and only takes me about 15 minutes from there. I was wondering if there was any other Atoma lower grit than the 140? Anyway, the SG easily cleans up with Bar Keepers friend and my thumb to rub out the slurry.

Steve

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ken123
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by ken123 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:03 pm

There is now :) I have 46 and 60 gtit diamond plates as well as stones as coarse at 24 grit for the ep.

---
Ken

Jason H
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by Jason H » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:18 am

Steve_Oh wrote:
Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:44 pm
I feel the Atoma 140 to 600 to 1200 really does 95% of the work...
I agree and learned this the hard way by wasting a lot of time and stock EP 120/220 stones. While I can't compare it to the Atoma 140, I love the CKTG 140 diamond plate and it's 1/3rd the price of the Atoma; https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ck140grdiplf.html

BillyJack
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by BillyJack » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:06 pm

Steve_Ho-

How well did the Atomas fit in the Edge Pro Arm? I purchased the CKTG diamond EP Stones and they did not fit well (the holder actually dislodged the stone from the aluminum blank). Otherwise they were great! There needs to be a few millimeters between the top of the 45 degree cut and the actual stone, otherwise the plastic holder will push on the actual stone as opposed to the 45 degree cut. I’m looking to purchase the Atoma’s, I’m just hoping they fit better and are properly cut. If you could let me know, or anyone else that has used them, that would be great. Thanks!! Mark had actually confirmed this about the CKTG diamond stones for the EP, and wants to get it fitted properly.

BillyJack
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Re: Atoma and Shapton - Ultimate EP set?

Post by BillyJack » Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:17 pm

ken123 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:03 pm
There is now :) I have 46 and 60 gtit diamond plates as well as stones as coarse at 24 grit for the ep.

---
Ken
Hello Ken...I tried finding these EP Diamond Stones on the sight, but I could not find them. Could post a link to them? Thanks.

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