clinging to the side of the rabbit hole. Gyuto 240mm recommendations

[Radar53]

For those that have the Konosuke HD2 or similar performing thin lasers, do you use them as general processing knives or reserve them for use where a laser really shines in processing product with less surface area contacting the blade?

Also, is there a knife you really love that is close to a laser in performance, but has a thicker spine and more convex blade or minimizes stiction through other means?

Hi John. A couple of things here. I have quite a few lasers and use them for general processing. As a generalisation lasers are perceived as being a bit more sticky than other Japanese knives that have thicker blades. That however doesn't tell the whole story. There are a number of things that "help" to reduce the stiction of thinner knives; eg blade road grinds and blade "texture" to name a couple. I find that many of my lasers seem to have pretty good food release.

Convex blade road grinds tend to force the product away from the blade for example and for a right handed knife a flat left face to the blade road combined with a larger convex profile on the RHS is good. Also, texture helps release by introducing air into the contact area. Air reduces the stiction eg think of a suction cup ~ sealed it is hard to remove, introduce even just a little air access under the rim and off it comes. A number of surface finishes on knives create a similar effect eg hammered, Kurouchi, etched, nashiji etc.

The other thing that you mention is thicker knives with laser performance. I was gobsmacked at the performance (including food release) of my
Kurosaki Hammered Gyuto 240mm R2 ~ https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kur2hadagy24.html
This performs up there with the best of lasers yet is 3.3mm thick at the spine and has a hammered finish. Unfortunately this seems not to be available any longer, but I note that this would seem to be very similar in concept,
Kurosaki Shizuku R2 Gyuto 240mm ~ https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kurosaki240.html

HTH

[salemj]

I have not sharpened it, yet. Thanks for the info on the Shapton 1000. I was reluctant to sharpen it on the 1000 thinking the factory may already have achieved a better edge on higher grits. Now that I have something other than German steel, I'll get the SG 4000 stone and probably a 6000 non glass stone. But I did strop the blade using diamond paste on a leather strop. I'll try sharpening it this week and report back.

I also recently bought an inexpensive DaoVua cleaver in 52100 steel and sharpened it on the SG 500, 1000, and diamond paste stropping, and it is shockingly good.

FYI, I noticed a difference in Kono knives over the years, although I can't say this is consistent. Back in the day, they seemed to have typical factory edges that implied finishing the edge on a wheel and perhaps a machine strop/polisher, which left a "sharp" edge but far from a refined one. More recently, I feel like the edges arrive refined—this is a change that has affected many Japanese makers and not just Konosuke, as many had a bad reputation before for not having factory edges that competed well with other commercial brands from Europe, etc. "Refined" here doesn't mean "great," it just means that often the edge is either hand-finished or is more consistent and reliable than before.

While I think that most people can still improve upon a factory edge with even just a bit of sharpening experience and good stones, I don't think you can necessarily improve upon it with just a 1k. If there are any issues with the factory edge, I would try stropping it on leather or newspaper for a number of times at 10-15 degrees. Otherwise, I'd wait until you have a stone of at least 2k or higher plus a strop, or at least 3k or higher without one, before messing with the factory edge for now. Just a second opinion, but of course experimenting is a pleasure. I do think you can probably make positive changes with a 1k, but I'm not sure it is worth wasting the metal given that the knife really begs for a higher middle-grit finish, so you'll just end up re-sharpening it as soon as you get a higher grit stone. (And this is from someone who likes middle-grit edges, especially on monosteel knives with medium HRC like the HDs!!)

Otherwise, thanks for your kind response to my other post!

[JustJohn]

The other thing that you mention is thicker knives with laser performance. I was gobsmacked at the performance (including food release) of my
Kurosaki Hammered Gyuto 240mm R2

HTH

That helps a lot. Thank you for the explanation and the info on the Kurosaki knives.

[JustJohn]

I do think you can probably make positive changes with a 1k, but I'm not sure it is worth wasting the metal given that the knife really begs for a higher middle-grit finish, so you'll just end up re-sharpening it as soon as you get a higher grit stone. (And this is from someone who likes middle-grit edges, especially on monosteel knives with medium HRC like the HDs!!)

I used the Kono HD2 last night. I julienned some onions and bell pepper and then shaved some steak extremely thin for a Philly cheesesteak. I am convinced the edge is already refined. It is extremely sharp. Two things really brought this home. When I julienned the bell peppers, I could cut from the outer side or the inner side, and I couldn't feel a difference. As I'm sure you know, usually it is more difficult to cut the skin side of a bell pepper. The knife is so sharp, it just melts through the skin side like it isn't even there. While shaving the steak, I was holding the knife at a low angle of about 25-30 degrees and using long pull cuts to cut across a lot of grain and marbling. I experienced some of the stiction. The edge was cutting like butter, it was just the side of the knife gripping the meat that required more effort. Once I had shaved two steaks, I had a pile of steak shavings about 4-5" high on the cutting board. I made a pass through the center of that pile of steak shavings with one push cut, and I was just floored. It passed though the steak like it wasn't even there. Wow!!! I mean, if there was ever a demo someone wanted to perform to sell Konosuke HD2's, that would be a great one, because it seems impossible that it could cut that easily through all of that meat. I'm assuming the individual shavings of steak had enough air gaps that stiction was completely eliminated and the blade edge could really shine.

I will definitely wait until I have the higher grit stones before I try to sharpen the Kono HD2. At this point, I'm not sure I could improve it. I have thought about trying to force a patina, but I think I'm going to hold off on that, too, and just use the knife. I cut a lot of onions, so I'm sure it will get a slight patina soon enough, and that may reduce the stickiness of the thin blade.

Thanks again for your thoughts. We're on the same page.

[Miles]

Great post and read JustJohn. An HD2, daovua and sharpening stones… You’re fully down the rabbit hole. I see a full carbon knife in your future

[JustJohn]

You’re fully down the rabbit hole. I see a full carbon knife in your future

LOL Thanks. Yeah, I guess I am. I'm going to try to be sensible. After the honesuki, I'm going to try to be good for awhile.

[Jeff B]

...I'm going to try to be good for awhile.

Yeah, we've all said that before....for what it's worth.

Glad you're experiencing some of the "wow" factor in the HD2. And with so many great knives out there, you've only scratched the surface.

[ronnie_suburban]

...I'm going to try to be good for awhile.

Yeah, we've all said that before....for what it's worth.

Yeah, LOL - famous last words!