Grandpa the butcher

[brucelieb]

I posted this another forum and it was suggested I bring it here. I'm new to this and new to knifes.

My grandfather was a butcher in slaughterhouses in NYC..
He left me a huge assortment of knifes- Dexters and Forsters.
I was too young to ask him to teach me even basic knife sharpening techniques. He used the steels I now own and, if I recall correctly, he used a rather large leather strop. We grew up eating steak to the point I hated it as a kid. Now my mouth drools just thinking about a good steak.

So now, old a retired I want tog et good at sharpening and using his old knifes.
The stones I have, his perhaps? Are old and not well kept. All sorts of oil was. used on them. I cleaned and soaked them with dish soap and took a toothbrush to them so I can put them to use. I have no clue what I own. No clue if these were his good one? Two stones have are two sided and one is a solid piece. A few seem course and some finer? I used them with water yesterday not wanting to return to oil. Seemed o work well?

Question 1: Should I start fresh with new stones? If so which? The Norton IM200 Knife Sharpener? Or a just Ceraxs 1000? Do I need another or should I just use his fine looking one.

Question 2- Do steels get worn out? He left me three steels. None have texture on them It was beautiful to watch him and i don't aspire to his speed and elegance but would like to use them in it is necessary or worth the effort.

Question 3- Leather strop worth the effort? His is long gone.

Any advice would be wonderful and thank you and Merry Christmas.

[aporigine]

I posted this another forum and it was suggested I bring it here. I'm new to this and new to knifes.

My grandfather was a butcher in slaughterhouses in NYC..
He left me a huge assortment of knifes- Dexters and Forsters.
I was too young to ask him to teach me even basic knife sharpening techniques. He used the steels I now own and, if I recall correctly, he used a rather large leather strop. We grew up eating steak to the point I hated it as a kid. Now my mouth drools just thinking about a good steak.

So now, old a retired I want tog et good at sharpening and using his old knifes.
The stones I have, his perhaps? Are old and not well kept. All sorts of oil was. used on them. I cleaned and soaked them with dish soap and took a toothbrush to them so I can put them to use. I have no clue what I own. No clue if these were his good one? Two stones have are two sided and one is a solid piece. A few seem course and some finer? I used them with water yesterday not wanting to return to oil. Seemed o work well?

Question 1: Should I start fresh with new stones? If so which? The Norton IM200 Knife Sharpener? Or a just Ceraxs 1000? Do I need another or should I just use his fine looking one.

Question 2- Do steels get worn out? He left me three steels. None have texture on them It was beautiful to watch him and i don't aspire to his speed and elegance but would like to use them in it is necessary or worth the effort.

Question 3- Leather strop worth the effort? His is long gone.

Any advice would be wonderful and thank you and Merry Christmas.

While I’m not far from beginner status myself, I’ve jumped into the sharpening shenanigan with both feet.

Oilstones vs waterstones is a subjective call. However I much prefer waterstones. For butchering knives, a coarse stone and a way to keep it flat are a good place to start. I have a Chosera 400 (not cheap) that I use to set bevels on knives that have not been reduced to “blunt as a butterknife” condition. If you have very blunt knives, a diamond stone such as an x-coarse DMT will save you hours of frustration. (Protip:do not use much pressure! The diamonds cut well at light [pound or so of force] pressures and tend to wear out when forced.)

The CKTG 140 diamond plate is great for keeping your stone(s) flat and is highly recommended. But as a sharpening device, it’s about as unpleasant as the broken-glass shriek of the nazgûl in the movie.

A Chosera 400 or a Shapton 500 (my only Cerax is a 5000, so I cannot advise, but I really like mine … good feedback and cutting power, but definitely needs an extended presoak) would be your foundation. Practice getting an edge off that stone that will cream through newsprint against the grain (or my preferred test medium, store receipts) and you’re good to go! Butchery thrives on well-set coarse edges. If you want a bit more refinement, a good 1000 ( many good choices) will meet that need.

On Youtube, Peter Nowlan/Knife Planet has a series of top-notch sharpening instruction vids. I’m about due for another viewing … always a new important detail gets my attention.

So long as your steels are straight, a smooth surface (with a bit of technique) will work perfectly on Dexters and … Forschners, which have a steel that is not super hard but tough as nails.

I’ll let more experienced folks take it from here.

[jmcnelly85]

Thank you for the wonderful questions and I’ll do my best to address the issues as well as I can. If I were in your shoes, here’s how I would proceed. You have a mystery pile of stones that may or may not still work. I would pick up some sort of coarse stone like a shapton pro 320 or glass 500 and have a base line of knowing you have a pro quality stone that can quickly set a new bevel and have an effective “butchers edge” with one new stone. From there I would experiment with your existing stones, see which ones leave a good finishing edge, see which ones are thirsty for water, or (keep it away from the waterstone) which ones work better with a food safe mineral oil (such as one found in the laxative section at a pharmacy). Mystery stones may or may not work, but for nastalgic reasons I feel like you have a sufficient “finishing stone” somewhere in the pile of bricks it might just take some getting used to to figure out how to make that kitty purr. Some food for thought on that journey, some new coarse waterstones are exponentially finer than some old fine stones, and not all meat cutters like a fine edge. As a chef, my butcher knives rarely see a stone finer than 800 grit, occasionally I’ll bring them up to 2k if I know I have some fish to tackle but using a 320 grit edge isn’t that uncommon for me if I know I’m just tackling beef and pork. Soft steels and big teeth really pair nicely together.

Despite popular belief, steels can get clogged up from removing metal in the honing process. I don’t know why people say steels don’t remove metal, but a quick way to “unclog” some is to take a paper towel, coat it with a little of the previously mentioned mineral oil and scrub and stroke the steel and you’ll see a fair bit of metal coming off to help expose some of the surface to get that metal on metal contact. Some of the old packer folks would even take sandpaper to their steels for different results. Coarser ones for quicker, more aggressive actions, or really really smooth them out for more of a polishing, burnishing effect. Some steels are so smooth they are a see through borosilicate glass, some are as aggressive as a diamond plate. Personally, I’m a fan of ceramic, but have a more traditional grooved one as well that sees a fair amount of use. A lot of personal preference will play in this area, but for the time being see how cleaning the swarf out will change the life of the steel. Outside of that… technique technique technique.

For now I’d skip the strop, I think a traditional rod is a more suitable tool for butcher work, but they are effective tools and fun to play with, I just think for the learning process you have enough to figure out without adding the variables of “did I over polish or round my edge”. Let’s keep walking before we’re running and then if we do find we like refined edges more than coarse ones you are ready for a strop, but for now I think it would just unnecessarily complicate things for minimum gain with the knives in question.

[ex1580]

All good advice above. I might add that some angle guides are useful tools to own. https://angleguide.com/a-sharpening-tutorial.aspx

For the most part, just don't overthink it. Set the bevel on a coarse or medium course stone 320-500 grit or so. This just means your bevel will be nice and flat all the way to the apex (tip). From here you can refine it with a 1000ish grit stone (600-2000 really). Now it should be good to go. A bare leather strop can be helpful for removing a burr formed when sharpening or straightening the edge after use (to some degree anyway). A loaded strop can be a stand-in for expensive higher grit stones.

I stopped using my steels a little while ago because using a strop was a chance to practice the honing technique I use on a stone. I am not a butcher. I think if I had a pile of knives I would rather grab a different sharp knife than try to steel one to get a little more life out of it. That's just me.

I'll leave this link here so you have plenty of reading material http://knifegrinders.com.au/06Procedures_SS.htm

[Kekoa]

I posted this another forum and it was suggested I bring it here. I'm new to this and new to knifes.

Hi brucelieb, glad to see you decided to hop over here. I think the community here will be able to help you get to where you want in your sharpening journey.

I don't have too much to add myself for now but I would definitely second a few of the suggestions that others have made. I think angle guides are very useful and you should get a set to take out the guess work.

Peter Nowlan's sharpening videos are a great reference and worth watching for sure.

And I also agree with jmcnelly85 that coarse edges will generally be preferred for meat cutting tasks, especially on softer blades such as Dexters. I am currently experimenting with a #1000 grit edge on my Dexter Chinese Cleaver which gets BBQ duty, but I expect to go back to my 320 diamond plate for the extra toothiness. I actually use a 140 diamond plate on my parents' Cuisinarts and they will cut meat and tomatoes for months even though they get the snot beat out of them and have acquired visible chips. My Mom was in awe of what I could get them to do with a fresh coarse edge on raw chicken breasts.

[Robstreperous]

Good advice indeed...

The only thing I'd add would be using "The Sharpie Trick". No matter which stones you use, when you're starting out, take a sharpie and color the edge of your knife. Both sides. When you run it along your stones the sharpie will rub off. Wherever you miss... there will still be ink. This will help you see how uniform your edges are and any areas you might have missed.

[ex1580]

Good advice indeed...

The only thing I'd add would be using "The Sharpie Trick". No matter which stones you use, when you're starting out, take a sharpie and color the edge of your bevel. Both sides. When you run it along your stones the sharpie will rub off. Wherever you miss... there will still be ink. This will help you see how uniform your edges are and any areas you might have missed.

Fixed that for you. I saw a guy color the whole knife once. That would not be fun to clean off, haha.

[aporigine]

…
Fixed that for you. I saw a guy color the whole knife once. That would not be fun to clean off, haha.

that’s going for the Poor-ouchi look

[ex1580]

He could see where the marker was shaved off pretty easily, that's for sure!