Handle Install Advice

[salemj]

Hi everyone. I know there are several professional Wa handle makers and installers here. I am going to try to install my own handle for the first time despite some warning to the contrary (I figured that if I can renovate a house and build furniture, I should be able to do this with the right warnings and care...but perhaps not as I don't have any practice or experience...further warnings welcome). It is not a handle of my own making, but rather one I purchased from a store.

I know there are several methods to try. My primary question is what bonding agent to use. I'm hoping people have a recommendation for a semi-permanent agent (even though this is likely to be a "permanent" install), such as something that cures hard but that releases when heated up or whatever. Otherwise, if there are tips for favourite methods, fillers, etc., feel free to share!

Thanks for any advice!

[aporigine]

My go-to is beeswax. Any use that will dislodge the handle
is well past the edge’s durability. Disclaimer: I do t have one with more than a dozen hours of pretty gentle, slow use. But I like the idea of letting it sit in the sun if I ever want to pull it off.

If you put hours on your knives or use them professionally, hot glue might be the ticket. They make “ultra lo temp” that softens at 170°.

[STPepper9]

I used beeswax for my Shibata and it held for a while, but it did come loose eventually. I believe much of the problem was that it was not a tight fit from the tang to the handle opening, and eventually the wax got compressed enough to come loose.
It did not get loose enough to come out of the handle on it's own and I used it for quite a while like that. But, eventually I removed it, cleaned it out, and reinstalled it with hot glue. It's been about two years and the glue still seems fine.
Something to consider, the other handles I’ve installed with wax were a tighter fit and still seem perfectly snug.
Also, the hot glue was more difficult to work with.

[stevem627]

I’m a user of beeswax for handle installs. Even if it get loose it’s a simple and fast process to redo it. If it fits well it holds great. I also like that you can easily remove it if you want to try a different handle.

[Jeff B]

I shave hot glue and fill the tang hole, doesn't have to be packed in. Heat the tang with your prefered method, torch or heat gun works well. Push the handle on, check for straightness and let cool. The excess glue that pushes back out of the tang hole trims at the handle easy with an xacto knife or razor blade and pulls right off the steel.

[cliff]

Agreed, I think hot melt glue is what you want. I've just burned mine in, and they've been secure. Glue would be better.

[salemj]

This is great feedback so far. Thanks guys. I would still like to see any other opinions if they exist, but hot glue sounds like it is close to what I want. It sounds like most of you don't mess with sawdust as filler, but perhaps that is actually assumed in your feedback? Feel free to clarify. I know there are lots of possible methods and I certainly don't think one is "best"...I'm just looking for options to consider, so I appreciate the diversity.

In this particular instance, the tang is shorter than usual by my estimation (about 3 inches or less I'd assume), which is one reason why I am concerned about filler and a secure hold.

[atang]

This is great feedback so far. Thanks guys. I would still like to see any other opinions if they exist, but hot glue sounds like it is close to what I want. It sounds like most of you don't mess with sawdust as filler, but perhaps that is actually assumed in your feedback? Feel free to clarify. I know there are lots of possible methods and I certainly don't think one is "best"...I'm just looking for options to consider, so I appreciate the diversity.

In this particular instance, the tang is shorter than usual by my estimation (about 3 inches or less I'd assume), which is one reason why I am concerned about filler and a secure hold.

The method and adhesives I use depends on the fitment of the handle to the tang. If the fit is tight, I like to burn the tang into the handle and hang it kind of like an axe head with a hammer. If there’s a little amount of play, I actually do like the look and function of the addition of sawdust. Quick set epoxy is one of my favorites. I go for the clear type because I don’t like the yellowing after cure and makes a more neutral match with the sawdust. I’ve not used the hot glue method but it sounds like it is a good option for ease of removal. If the tang is REALLY rattling around in an extreme case, maybe wood glue very thin strips/slices of wood inside to help shim the tang for better fit? (I've not needed to resort to that).
Relying solely on adhesive for double use also as a filler can possibly lead to failure. Sawdust helps; however double check the adhesive product specs to avoid a situation where the blade dislodges from the handle. If the fit is tight/snug, the beeswax and hot glue should work just fine. Don’t rush the install, but if you chose a near permanent adhesive give yourself enough work time to make adjustments. 3” should be fine depth-wise? What kind of wood are you using? Is it untreated? Stabilized? Or any other variables?

[Bensbites]

Who ever says you can't... silly. My go to is hot melt glue. Use files to get the fit where you want it.

Squirt hot melt glue into the tang hole. As much as you can. It doesn't take much. If the tang hole is thin, don't worry about it, just do what you can.


Place some hot melt glue on the tang. This way you can judge when it's hot enough to melt the glue in the handle.


Heat tang with a torch or heat gun. Hold the choil area to ensure you are not over heating the blade. The steel under my hand never gets too hot to hold. I've the tang is hot , plunge it in. Once to glue is cold. Cut the excess away with a razor. Better yet. Protect the surface with painters tape.

If you can build furniture, make a couple wa handles from cheap wood. The practice install will be well worth your time.


To remove the handle. Place the knife in a large food saver bag. Boil for 10 min in water.

[Kerneldrop]

I've thought about replacing the handle on my Yuki Gyuto. I ordered it with the intent of replacing the handle.
Just like the OP, I have every tool imaginable plus a ton of beeswax or hot glue...so I just need to do it.

I wasn't sure what folks use to fit the tang....I may need a small rasp. I have small metal files that may work.

[Bensbites]

I've thought about replacing the handle on my Yuki Gyuto. I ordered it with the intent of replacing the handle.
Just like the OP, I have every tool imaginable plus a ton of beeswax or hot glue...so I just need to do it.

I wasn't sure what folks use to fit the tang....I may need a small rasp. I have small metal files that may work.

I use a combination of small wood files and a jigsaw blade in vice grips.

[cliff]

I've done mostly Sanjo knives, so the issue was filing out the tang hole. Once I did that and burned them in, I put some silicone around the opening. That's it. They've been perfectly secure. I got the hot melt glue but didn't feel like I needed it. If something goes wonky, I can always go there later.

[stevem627]

For rasps, I found a nice small set on Amazon. Sometimes you have to remove quite a bit of material, like when I fit my Wakui handle and a nice aggressive rasp would be handy though. I couldn’t find one at a reasonable price unfortunately. You want something with larger teeth and I think a small jigsaw blade would work nice, but I don’t care enough to make a handle for one. If anyone knows where to find a decent priced on, let me know.

[taz575]

Look for the 3mm needle rasps on Amazon; they work great! For a permanent install, I use JB Kwik Weld. It dries a dark grey and is thick epoxy. It gives you a few minutes of working time to align everything before it sets up. I use a razor blade wrapped in a paper towel soaked in Denatured Alcohol to clean up the squeeze out from around the tang area. I tried boiling it off, doesn't budge. I cracked a Micarta ferrule hammering on it with a piece of wood as well as a steel bar to try to remove it.

I started playing with hot melt glue recently and shaving strips off of the hot glue stick with a veggie peeler, sticking them into the tang slot, and the heating the tang with a butane burner, then sticking it into the tang, letting cool and trimming the excess.

Just be aware that boiling off a handle can effect the epoxy bond on the pieces of the handle themselves or raise the wood grain and may need to do some finish sanding.

[salemj]

This is great feedback so far. Thanks guys. I would still like to see any other opinions if they exist, but hot glue sounds like it is close to what I want. It sounds like most of you don't mess with sawdust as filler, but perhaps that is actually assumed in your feedback? Feel free to clarify. I know there are lots of possible methods and I certainly don't think one is "best"...I'm just looking for options to consider, so I appreciate the diversity.

In this particular instance, the tang is shorter than usual by my estimation (about 3 inches or less I'd assume), which is one reason why I am concerned about filler and a secure hold.

The method and adhesives I use depends on the fitment of the handle to the tang. If the fit is tight, I like to burn the tang into the handle and hang it kind of like an axe head with a hammer. If there’s a little amount of play, I actually do like the look and function of the addition of sawdust. Quick set epoxy is one of my favorites. I go for the clear type because I don’t like the yellowing after cure and makes a more neutral match with the sawdust. I’ve not used the hot glue method but it sounds like it is a good option for ease of removal. If the tang is REALLY rattling around in an extreme case, maybe wood glue very thin strips/slices of wood inside to help shim the tang for better fit? (I've not needed to resort to that).
Relying solely on adhesive for double use also as a filler can possibly lead to failure. Sawdust helps; however double check the adhesive product specs to avoid a situation where the blade dislodges from the handle. If the fit is tight/snug, the beeswax and hot glue should work just fine. Don’t rush the install, but if you chose a near permanent adhesive give yourself enough work time to make adjustments. 3” should be fine depth-wise? What kind of wood are you using? Is it untreated? Stabilized? Or any other variables?

Thanks for the additional thoughts. I was thinking of making my own handle for months but was too busy to explore...then a knife I had been looking for finally came back in stock somewhere and they had a handle I knew would work well, so I just took the plunge. So, it is a Konosuke-make handle (Khii-Ebony) which I know is a good one given that I already own one. I don't have the handle yet, so I'm not sure of the fit or need for adjustment, but my guess is that the tang will fit ok without adjustment given listed specs and measurements. If not, it will be very, very close, so other advice regarding filing will be followed. (To be honest, I may also just file down the width of the tang slightly, as that is technically easier in some respects.)

[salemj]

Thanks for the great replies. I'll update more when I have the handle in-hand and give things more of a try. I'm guessing I'll try for the hot glue, but I may also make a cheap handle first to practice as suggested above. Only issue is that the hardest part of making a handle is the part that I lack good tools for (cutting the slot...I have plenty of drills and bits but no official press, and lots of sanding gear but few files), so given that I just came down with a cold and I wanted to do this over the holiday weekend, I'm not sure how experimental I will be!

For any of those interested, I'll be putting a hand on a Yoshikane tsuchime SKD 240 that I was able to get "like new" used. There's a bit of a story as to what happened to the original handle...I guess I'll save that for the update! Anyways, I'm excited to get this knife sorted and also excited that I finally got my hands on one after two years or so of waiting. From what I understand, these are being phased out by the maker for whatever reason. But for my tastes, it is one of the best tsuchime finishes out there and the only non-satin or damascus-finished knives I currently own, so I figure it is worth some new boots that feel right in my hand.

[atang]

Nice find! Small rasps or very thin wood chisel will make quick work of the handle. I’d try to avoid removing material from the tang, only as a last resort. Unstabilized wood should be easier to secure with hot glue than stabilized wood.

[STPepper9]

Since we're on the subject, has anyone found it necessary or worth it to make a jig to get the install straight on the first try?
I've had to redo an install a couple times after realizing it was tilted or crooked.. If there's any tips and tricks for this I think would be helpful too.

[taz575]

Some people will "bed" the handle. This entails using a release agent on the tang and epoxy in the slot in the handle, which will cure around the tangle, but not too the tang. This means the handle should fit onto the tang the same way every time. The Hot Glue method doesn't give much time to adjust the blade/handle, but is easy enough to redo. The epoxy method gives you a few minutes to tweak and align everything, but then you have to hold it until it sets up enough.

Maybe the best way is to "bed" the tang/handle with something like JB Kwik Weld in the ferrule area and get it aligned properly and close up any gaps. Then use the Hot melt glue strips to get the glue into the handle to secure it to the tang? There should be enough gap where the tang goes and may only need 1 or 2 strips? Or maybe the epoxy at the very end of the tang area and then use hot melt glue on the upper area where it may release with a heat gun and not need to be boiled?

[Bensbites]

Since we're on the subject, has anyone found it necessary or worth it to make a jig to get the install straight on the first try?
I've had to redo an install a couple times after realizing it was tilted or crooked.. If there's any tips and tricks for this I think would be helpful too.

I don't. I spend the time to get a stairght dry fit before adhesive. If that fit is tight and straight, then the adhesive is easy.


Hot melt glue and 5 minute epoxy both give me enough time to get the tang in, and check /hold the blade straight before they set up.