Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

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Insnekamkze86
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Insnekamkze86 » Thu May 16, 2019 7:00 am

Yes yes thank you all very much for the input and responses. I think I look into a 320, 1k, and 5k, for now. Another question is are the Shapton glass better than the pros or about the same in performance?

Peter Nowlan
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Peter Nowlan » Thu May 16, 2019 7:57 am

I’m going to add a different perspective here.
Folks tend to get hung up on brands of stones. Before I could call myself a decent sharpener I spent months looking at different brands. I asked a hundred people and I wasted a lot of time. In my ignorance I thought having the right brand, Naniwa Chosera for example would make be a better sharpener than if I bought King stones. This is flawed thinking and you should consider this. I bet every sharpener on this forum could take any 3 stones that the learned one Mark sells and make the knives sharp. Having an 8k Shapton Pro isn’t going to make a difference than if you had a Kityama 8k or Arashiyama 6k. These are not going to propel you into the next level.
Instead of thinking what brand to buy to produce the sharpest edges, think about what stones will give you the most joy from
a tactile feedback perspective. Your technique and skill is going to give you the results you seek, not a particular brand. Now if you get a stone that feels great every time than perhaps that will boost confidence and accelerate your ability.

I say this because of the branding mistakes i made, I didn’t prioritize correctly. So go out and get a few stones and just start using them. I have a few different 5k stones, they all provide the same end results but since I like the feel of the Suehiro Rika it’s the one I use. I use my stones based on how they feel when I’m sharpening. I often use 2 coarse stones, a 220 and 600 sometimes, I just adjust pressure as I need to but don’t be afraid to throw that 320 into the mix.
It’s fun of course thinking about getting a particular brand based on what you hear about it. All you need is a coarse medium and fine set and a flattener. Then learn to love them.

Insnekamkze86
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Insnekamkze86 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:09 am

As with the knives I'm buying stone blindly so have no way knowing how they feel besides buying them. But will be mostly using them at work more so than at home.

Carlo
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Carlo » Thu May 16, 2019 10:29 am

arthurfowler wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 3:26 pm
Can’t offer views on a comparison as I don’t own any Naniwa stones. There are far more experienced sharpeners than me but if you wanted 4 Shapton Pro stones, I would drop the 8k and get the 2k stone as this would be a good finishing stone for some German steels and I really like to finish suji’s for general carving on the 2k pro.
My sentiments are very similar. I finish on the SP 2k + a balsa or leather strop for most of my knives and rarely use my SP 5k. I don’t have the 8k or anything finer and am unlikely to invest in them.

I do wonder what softer stones are like but the SP line is all I’ll ever need.

Radar53
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Radar53 » Thu May 16, 2019 3:05 pm

There's a lot of advice above, but I'm now curious about which what you're going to choose. The problem for you is that they're all good.

So when you get & use them come back and let us know how they worked for you and what you think.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!

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Papou
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Papou » Thu May 16, 2019 5:36 pm

Peter Nowlan wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 7:57 am
I’m going to add a different perspective here.
Folks tend to get hung up on brands of stones. Before I could call myself a decent sharpener I spent months looking at different brands. I asked a hundred people and I wasted a lot of time. In my ignorance I thought having the right brand, Naniwa Chosera for example would make be a better sharpener than if I bought King stones. This is flawed thinking and you should consider this. I bet every sharpener on this forum could take any 3 stones that the learned one Mark sells and make the knives sharp. Having an 8k Shapton Pro isn’t going to make a difference than if you had a Kityama 8k or Arashiyama 6k. These are not going to propel you into the next level.
Instead of thinking what brand to buy to produce the sharpest edges, think about what stones will give you the most joy from
a tactile feedback perspective. Your technique and skill is going to give you the results you seek, not a particular brand. Now if you get a stone that feels great every time than perhaps that will boost confidence and accelerate your ability.

I say this because of the branding mistakes i made, I didn’t prioritize correctly. So go out and get a few stones and just start using them. I have a few different 5k stones, they all provide the same end results but since I like the feel of the Suehiro Rika it’s the one I use. I use my stones based on how they feel when I’m sharpening. I often use 2 coarse stones, a 220 and 600 sometimes, I just adjust pressure as I need to but don’t be afraid to throw that 320 into the mix.
It’s fun of course thinking about getting a particular brand based on what you hear about it. All you need is a coarse medium and fine set and a flattener. Then learn to love them.
How True :) , The Stones you bond with will be the sum of the end results with your sharpening ..

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lsboogy
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by lsboogy » Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 pm

I would still suggest getting a set of 1K stones and finding out what YOU like - because I can't stand hard stones and Mark loves them does not mean either of us is right - find out what you like to use and go from there.

Insnekamkze86
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Insnekamkze86 » Thu May 16, 2019 10:40 pm

Thank you for the advice. I'm definitely going to get a 3 stone kit but don't know which brand yet. But it will be something like a 200/320 kind of grit for corse. 1k for medium and a 5k for fine along with a fine ceramic hone. Since I do hone my knives alot which let's me go longer before having to do touch ups on the fine Indian oil stone at work. Right now I'm at 1 to 2 months before having to sharpen again since I use a home every day.

If I go with Shapton it be either the pro or glass lineup still not sure which one is better. For naniwa it would be the super stones. If I go for soaking stone it be the green brick of joy along with a Cerax combo stone. But thinking that I'm still wanting the splash and goes vs the soaking.

But is it true that the splash and go stones don't have a lot of feedback to them. I'm not sure what that exactly entails but I've heard someone saying that about them.

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Papou
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Papou » Fri May 17, 2019 2:48 am

Feedback???:) ,Mmmmm ,, think of yourself driving your car along the Highway and the steering pulls to one side . That is feedback your steering is out of allignment , hand on something nice n warm and feels good , that is feedback :) , feel your blade working on a stone letting you know its cutting nicely , that is feedback .
Not sure that was your direct question but my explanation of feedback and when i am working a blade on a fav stone i can feel the blade and stone working in unison that is feedback between blade and stone :)..

Insnekamkze86
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Insnekamkze86 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:42 am

Yes thank you. Here's another question what stone or stones have you guys used that cuts somewhat fast but does not wear out fast.

gladius
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by gladius » Fri May 17, 2019 8:51 am

Insnekamkze86 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 7:42 am
Yes thank you. Here's another question what stone or stones have you guys used that cuts somewhat fast but does not wear out fast.
---
Shapton Pro stones are hard and long wearing, more so than the Naniwa Choseras.

Insnekamkze86
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Insnekamkze86 » Fri May 17, 2019 8:53 am

Okay thank you for the input. 320 grit should be the lowest grit that I should be looking at correct for a corse stone or should I look at the their 220 or 120 stones as well?

gladius
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by gladius » Fri May 17, 2019 8:56 am

Insnekamkze86 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:53 am
Okay thank you for the input. 320 grit should be the lowest grit that I should be looking at correct for a corse stone or should I look at the their 220 or 120 stones as well?
I prefer the 220. It works well in a 220, 1k, 2k & 5k sequence.

Insnekamkze86
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Insnekamkze86 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:04 pm

Another thing I was thinking about was just getting a 140 grit plate along with the 2k green brick of joy and stone holder. As a starter kit if I don't decide on a 3 to 4 stone setup. The 140 for flattening and if ever needed to could use it as a corse grit stone then go to the 2k stone. Otherwise I don't ever think I get below a 1k stone for touch ups, since I stopped going between 3 to 6 months before sharpening when I had Kai knives. Now with my dalstrong I do touch ups ever 2 to 4 weeks on stone at work.

Or is that crazy talk just tring to have one stone like the green brick and a flattening plate/stone.

gladius
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by gladius » Fri May 17, 2019 8:00 pm

Insnekamkze86 wrote:
Fri May 17, 2019 7:04 pm
Another thing I was thinking about was just getting a 140 grit plate along with the 2k green brick of joy and stone holder. As a starter kit if I don't decide on a 3 to 4 stone setup. The 140 for flattening and if ever needed to could use it as a corse grit stone then go to the 2k stone. Otherwise I don't ever think I get below a 1k stone for touch ups, since I stopped going between 3 to 6 months before sharpening when I had Kai knives. Now with my dalstrong I do touch ups ever 2 to 4 weeks on stone at work.

Or is that crazy talk just tring to have one stone like the green brick and a flattening plate/stone.
The GBOJ is great on soft steel like Euro brands but is not a strong cutter. While others value feel I prioritize cutting speed and finish. I would recommend low and medium grit synthetic stones (SP 220 & 1k) and an affordable natural stone like a $50 Belgian Blue: the Shapton Pros efficient cutters producing a clean edge and the BB a smooth pleasurable polishing stone. Later you can get a $30 diamond flattening plate.

Insnekamkze86
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Insnekamkze86 » Fri May 17, 2019 10:47 pm

Okay thank you I've just heard great things about it that it made me re look at it as a sharpening stone.

Kalaeb
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Kalaeb » Fri May 17, 2019 11:40 pm

lsboogy wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 10:02 pm
I would still suggest getting a set of 1K stones and finding out what YOU like - because I can't stand hard stones and Mark loves them does not mean either of us is right - find out what you like to use and go from there.
But just because a 1k is good in one set, does not mean the whole set is good. For example, I hate the Shap Pro 1k, but love the 2k.

Insnekamkze86
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by Insnekamkze86 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:08 am

What do you think of the
Imanishi stones? Any or the Two Sided 1K/6K for soaking?

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lsboogy
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by lsboogy » Sat May 18, 2019 10:24 am

If you are looking at a two sided stone (great way to get into this stuff for cheap) you might look at the Cerax 1K/3K stone
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ceraxcombo1k3k.html
I have purchased several of these for my neices and nephew. Each kid gets a gyuto, cutting board, and one of these upon graduation from college. They also get a basic knife skills class and a sharpening class from me.
The stone is not really soft, and will cut very hard steel well. It also has enough feedback so that you can find the edge easily. Thy require a short soak, and I have a spray bottle handy to minimize loading. And they produce a better edge than any factory knife (Shun/Global/Dalstrong etc) comes with. A 3K edge done well will do great prep sessions and is capable of most of the tricks you see in videos.
If you can learn to freehand on that stone, all the rest will be refining to what you prefer. As Peter Nowlan says, "Master the 1K". Having a 1K/3K or 1K/6K combination stone and knowing how to use it will let you have knives sharper than almost anyone.

nakneker
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Re: Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

Post by nakneker » Sat May 18, 2019 1:17 pm

I have a couple of the cerax combo stones. I’m very happy with them. Use them all the time at my home away from home, they do a great job.
“The goal is to die with memories, not dreams.”

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