Masakage Shimo refinish question

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flying hippo
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Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by flying hippo » Thu Aug 08, 2019 10:42 pm

I picked up a new Masakage Shimo and it came with a some slight rust that it picked up during shipping. One of the first things I tried was a damp paper towel and some soap to polish off the rust and the paper towel. That was a mistake as the cladding is soft. I pushed too hard and there are a bunch of small scratches near the tip. The scratches aren't deep and can only be seen at a certain angle. I'd like to get rid of the scratches and have it in a "like new" state before I go to town on it and use it normally. I was thinking of using fine sandpaper to do a touch up job on the scratches. Would this mess up the finish? What grits should I use. Are there safer options to refinishing the knife while keeping the Damascus like pattern?

Thanks!

Robstreperous
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Robstreperous » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:58 am

My first thought is the cladding will form a patina and might obscure the scratches.

If that's not what you're after.... I'm sort of interested in suggestions as well. My 4 yr old nakiri's cladding would probably benefit from a bit of a tuneup too... yet as you mentioned... it seems a challenging finish to buff out evenly.

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Altadan
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Altadan » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:59 am

One thing to do would be to contact Ken Scwartz. He'd be able to service your knife.

Otherwise, finger stones come to mind as a way to gently refinish the knife. I'd expect you would need to refinish the whole blade. It's not easy at all (or perhaps outright impossible) to match a single spot's texture to the rest of the bladeface.

Another option is to either go over the whole knife with some fine-grit sandpaper, and then lightly etch it, or skip the sandpaper and just etch it (a gentle etching might obscure gentle scuffs. I've had some experience with that here)

Robstreperous
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Robstreperous » Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:13 am

Altadan wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:59 am
One thing to do would be to contact Ken Scwartz. He'd be able to service your knife.

Otherwise, finger stones come to mind as a way to gently refinish the knife. I'd expect you would need to refinish the whole blade. It's not easy at all (or perhaps outright impossible) to match a single spot's texture to the rest of the bladeface.

Another option is to either go over the whole knife with some fine-grit sandpaper, and then lightly etch it, or skip the sandpaper and just etch it (a gentle etching might obscure gentle scuffs. I've had some experience with that here)
Good thought ----- except

There's a pretty delicate and involved damascus pattern on the Shimos.... I know I wouldn't want to try it.

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Altadan
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Altadan » Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:25 am

Robstreperous wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 9:13 am
Altadan wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:59 am
One thing to do would be to contact Ken Scwartz. He'd be able to service your knife.

Otherwise, finger stones come to mind as a way to gently refinish the knife. I'd expect you would need to refinish the whole blade. It's not easy at all (or perhaps outright impossible) to match a single spot's texture to the rest of the bladeface.

Another option is to either go over the whole knife with some fine-grit sandpaper, and then lightly etch it, or skip the sandpaper and just etch it (a gentle etching might obscure gentle scuffs. I've had some experience with that here)
Good thought ----- except

There's a pretty delicate and involved damascus pattern on the Shimos.... I know I wouldn't want to try it.
wouldn't want to try what?

Finger stones bring out damascus in a rather milky and delicate way.
Etching - depending on how strong/diluted you make the solution, and how long/short a duration you leave it in, is the prime means of bringing out Damascus patterns
and...
ah! if you do use sandpaper, I found that (at least with the kind of horizontal pattern I had on my knife) it was best to make vertical passes, from spine to edge. The vertical scratch pattern caught the light in a way that made the (my) Damascus pattern seem like it had ridges (even when completely smooth. It was beautiful).

In either case, the knife is yours - and the choice is yours. You can live with the scuffs, or you can live adventurously, hahaha :)
Hope this helps

gladius
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by gladius » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:13 am

Try Bar Keeps Friend on the entire surface using a non-scratch green scrubber pad.

Robstreperous
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Robstreperous » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:37 am

Altadan wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 10:25 am
wouldn't want to try what?
The Shimo's cladding is close to unique in my experience. I believe the maker chose its name for that reason. Reminiscent of either frost or snow --- forget which.

Fingerstones or sandpaper -- at least at my present skill level -- I'm not confident I could maintain an even finish, let alone replicate the frost like texture.


@Gladius' suggestion seems like it might be worth a try as well.

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Altadan
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Altadan » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:04 pm

BKF, huh?

Well, I'm no chemist, but that sounds like a simple way to work a low-grade etch :)
Post some before and after photos, will you?

Robstreperous
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Robstreperous » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:26 pm

Altadan wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:04 pm
BKF, huh?

Well, I'm no chemist, but that sounds like a simple way to work a low-grade etch :)
Post some before and after photos, will you?
Fair point. I dunno... Maybe that's why I haven't really done much more than keep it clean and wipe it off after each use these last 4 years.

gladius
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by gladius » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:32 pm

I've used BKF on my Shimo nakiri - it was very reactive when I first got it but it has settled a bit and now is not a worry.

flying hippo
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by flying hippo » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:56 pm

20190809_000156.jpg
Shimo scratched tip
Thanks everyone for the replies.

I'm attaching a photo. The scratches are slightly deeper than the normal finishing marks that go from spine to edge. They don't show up well in the picture but at on angle the light glares off the freshly exposed steel. The scratches are of course at a different angle than the parallel grind lines, because I suck at polishing. They don't show up well in the picture but I'm hoping you get the idea.

I don't think it makes sense to send it in. The damage is pretty minor. Plus I'm really wanting to try the knife out and I'm not sure I could wait to have it shipped out and sent back.

I'm leaning towards doing a mild etch, then if that doesn't work using a finger stone or sandpaper at a very high grit then mild etch again to even things out. The Damascus pattern on that side also isn't as clear as the other. It'd be cool to bring it out. Does anyone know what steels are used in the cladding?

I have a bottle of Flitz but not Bar Keepers Friend. Are they equivalent?

The other probably smarter option is just accept it, forget the whole thing and start cooking with it.

I would like to know the proper way to refinish the knife, the blade is a freaking work of art, I'd like to be able to get it back to prestine condition a few years down the line.

Shimo means frost. Yuki means snow. Masakage has a knife named Yuki as well so it can get confusing.

I'm very new to finger stones. If someone has general advice on how to do that that would be appreciated.

Thanks again.

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Altadan
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Altadan » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:03 pm

" I have a bottle of Flitz but not Bar Keepers Friend. Are they equivalent? "

Nope.
Flitz ain't acidic like BKF is (as far as I know)

A good - and inspiring - thread on all things polishing can be found here :D
There are others, too, of course
Last edited by Altadan on Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Steel+Fire
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Steel+Fire » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:05 pm

It is still just steel and the pattern is from the different steel compositions and the finish on the steel. Just use a metal polish on it and it will make it all look silver and new. As you use it the patterns will be evident again as the iron and steel patina in different manners. If the rust is deep enough to have pitted the steel then you need to sand the blade to your desired finish grit. The original finish will be hard to redo as it looks to me like the blade is etched and then bead blasted. Closest you will get is to sand it and etch it again but that blasted mat finish will not be the same. I would bet that a Shimo would look pretty cool with a kasumi style finger stone finish I have not seen anyone attempt that.

flying hippo
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by flying hippo » Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:05 pm

Altadan wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:03 pm
A good - and inspiring - thread on all things polishing can be found here :D
There are others, too, of course
Thanks for the link. I'll have to read up.
Steel+Fire wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:05 pm
The original finish will be hard to redo as it looks to me like the blade is etched and then bead blasted. Closest you will get is to sand it and etch it again but that blasted mat finish will not be the same. I would bet that a Shimo would look pretty cool with a kasumi style finger stone finish I have not seen anyone attempt that.
I think you are right. Etched to first to bring out the patterns then blasted for a muted texture on top of the pattern. CKTG has the Shimo listed as "sand blasted" so probably I'm not going to be able to recreate the factory finish. There would be no point in doing a kasumi finger stone finish at this point, I'd have to do the whole knife.

So maybe a light etch maybe to blur the scratches only and no sandpaper or stones at this point. I'd have to pick up a bottle of BKF.

Right now I'm leaning towards just using it normally my raging OCD about the scratches is starting to settle down. Maybe its better to revisit the idea of refinishing it a long while down the road if and when it gets dinged up so badly that it warrants it, or if it patinas into some god forsaken obscene color. Or send it in to someone who can clean it up and sand or bead blast it.

The comments have been helpful. Thank you.

On a unrelated note, the handle is (I think) unfinished Magnolia. I'm not completely sold on the texture. Has anyone tried to sand a magnolia handle down and oiled/waxed it for a smoother feel? How much darker would the wood get?

Byphy
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Byphy » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:51 am

It gets a lot darker for sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJNk9LRE7aI

cliff
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by cliff » Thu Nov 14, 2019 4:36 pm

I have used tru-oil on a Masakage Yuki, which turned out great and did not darken (much if at all).

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Jeff B
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Jeff B » Thu Nov 14, 2019 5:10 pm

flying hippo wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:05 pm
...On a unrelated note, the handle is (I think) unfinished Magnolia. I'm not completely sold on the texture. Has anyone tried to sand a magnolia handle down and oiled/waxed it for a smoother feel? How much darker would the wood get?
I have sanded down and sealed all my Ho wood handles with Tru-Oil. I can't stand the feel of unsealed Ho/Magnolia wood handles. They do darken but only slightly.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

Francois77
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Re: Masakage Shimo refinish question

Post by Francois77 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:19 pm

flying hippo wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 6:05 pm
Altadan wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:03 pm
A good - and inspiring - thread on all things polishing can be found here :D
There are others, too, of course
Thanks for the link. I'll have to read up.
Steel+Fire wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:05 pm
The original finish will be hard to redo as it looks to me like the blade is etched and then bead blasted. Closest you will get is to sand it and etch it again but that blasted mat finish will not be the same. I would bet that a Shimo would look pretty cool with a kasumi style finger stone finish I have not seen anyone attempt that.
I think you are right. Etched to first to bring out the patterns then blasted for a muted texture on top of the pattern. CKTG has the Shimo listed as "sand blasted" so probably I'm not going to be able to recreate the factory finish. There would be no point in doing a kasumi finger rachat de credit meilleur taux stone finish at this point, I'd have to do the whole knife.

So maybe a light etch maybe to blur the scratches only and no sandpaper or stones at this point. I'd have to pick up a bottle of BKF.

Right now I'm leaning towards just using it normally my raging OCD about the scratches is starting to settle down. Maybe its better to revisit the idea of refinishing it a long while down the road if and when it gets dinged up so badly that it warrants it, or if it patinas into some god forsaken obscene color. Or send it in to someone who can clean it up and sand or bead blast it.

The comments have been helpful. Thank you.

On a unrelated note, the handle is (I think) unfinished Magnolia. I'm not completely sold on the texture. Has anyone tried to sand a magnolia handle down and oiled/waxed it for a smoother feel? How much darker would the wood get?
Hi yes I'm fully, agree with you :) I also think he's right

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