Perfect 240 suji

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btbyrd
Posts: 96
Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:01 am

Re: Perfect 240 suji

Post by btbyrd » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:16 am

I have the Gesshin Ginga 210 suji / petty that I got as a cooked protein slicer when I'm grilling outside and don't have a huge cutting board and space is at a premium. The Gesshin Ginga has embossed kanji on the right hand side of the knife and silk screened kanji on the left. The Ginga line are characteristically on the "thin and whippy" side of things. They're thin blades with thin grinds -- "lasery." I wouldn't consider it especially stiff, but it's got some flex. Given how thin it is, I'm not sure that it's going to be "durable for tough tasks" -- as a matter of fact, JKI called after I placed my order (my first order with them) to give me a heads-up about using the Ginga, as it's so thin. It's not an especially durable blade, but I'm not sure that sujis are intended for (or even useful for) most "tough tasks." They're slicers.

What do you see yourself doing with your suji? That's also relevant to determining the appropriate length. If you're ever going to, say, portion a striploin into individual steaks, a 270 or 300 would be a better choice. But if all you're doing is slicing cooked chicken breast or steak (or whatever) before it goes out, that extra length may not do much for you. I have an Anryu 300mm suji that I absolutely love. It's great for cutting down steaks and slicing (boned) roasts -- things that my 210 (and probably a 240) wouldn't be able to do gracefully. But it's very stiff and has basically no flex. Still, the length is a real virtue in certain tasks; you can't slice with millimeters of steel that aren't there. Even if you're not big on long gyutos, extra length on a suji may come in handy. Of course, that length might also get in the way if you're never going to use it.

Chefspence
Posts: 2318
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:03 pm

Re: Perfect 240 suji

Post by Chefspence » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:01 am

Right now my work is limited to mainly pork loins. In the past I’ve broken down mainly primals of typical land creatures, and the run of the mill fish species. Never felt the need for anything longer than 270 for anything, and typically chose 240 for most tasks. I typically use shorter knives, I prefer a 210 gyuto to a 240 most of the time unless it’s nexessary.

Which brings me to a thought... maybe I should use a combo of a 210 slicer, which I could use as my go to for now, then just keep a 270 Of some kind for when I need a larger suji?

In any case, I’d think 240 would be the ultimate useful size for me negating the need to have too many single use knives laying around. Just trying to narrow it down a bit

salemj
Posts: 2603
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Perfect 240 suji

Post by salemj » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 am

I think I mentioned above (but perhaps it was in another post) that I had a 270mm suji that I thought was just terrific but that I had to sell because it was just too long. I would have loved the length in an ideal kitchen - certainly it was not "too long" of a knife for me to use - but the usual cutting spaces in my kitchen made it awkward to use. I imagine this is even more of an issue in most professional kitchens, in which dedicated spaces are often quite defined.

Point is, regardless of whether a certain size of knife is ideal for a task, the ability to use the knife comfortably and effectively is often limited by work space. I would use this factor to determine whether a 210 + 270 is a better combo than just having a 240. I know in my kitchen, several of my 210 gyutos work terrific as slicers, so having a 240 suji is far better in terms of a versatile slicer since the 270 is just too long for my cutting zones. Ultimately, when one has excess money to burn and space to store, it is great to have it all. I learned that even having the 270 just could not be justified at this point in time, even though I got it for a song and loved it...it just wasn't being used and I like to keep things in my block rather than in boxes.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

Chefspence
Posts: 2318
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:03 pm

Re: Perfect 240 suji

Post by Chefspence » Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:03 pm

salemj wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 am
I think I mentioned above (but perhaps it was in another post) that I had a 270mm suji that I thought was just terrific but that I had to sell because it was just too long. I would have loved the length in an ideal kitchen - certainly it was not "too long" of a knife for me to use - but the usual cutting spaces in my kitchen made it awkward to use. I imagine this is even more of an issue in most professional kitchens, in which dedicated spaces are often quite defined.

Point is, regardless of whether a certain size of knife is ideal for a task, the ability to use the knife comfortably and effectively is often limited by work space. I would use this factor to determine whether a 210 + 270 is a better combo than just having a 240. I know in my kitchen, several of my 210 gyutos work terrific as slicers, so having a 240 suji is far better in terms of a versatile slicer since the 270 is just too long for my cutting zones. Ultimately, when one has excess money to burn and space to store, it is great to have it all. I learned that even having the 270 just could not be justified at this point in time, even though I got it for a song and loved it...it just wasn't being used and I like to keep things in my block rather than in boxes.
I have no use for 270 knives, and I don't think that anything above 240 is necessary in a kitchen...unless it's a slicer. But even then, 270 is long for most tasks I've come across. Just to be a devil's advocate, I think the idea of using a gyuto as a slicer is absolutely preposterous. Slicing tasks belong to a slicer. I've tried with other knives and it just doesn't work well enough. No dig on you Joe. Thanks for all your input on this thread, as I really do want to find a solution that works. You've given me some good food for thought!!

jacko9
Posts: 1722
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:51 pm
Location: SF Bay Area, Ca

Re: Perfect 240 suji

Post by jacko9 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:01 pm

About a year and a half ago I picked up a Konosuke Fujiyama 210 W#2 Petty that I use as a slicer when I don't need my 270 Kagekiyo W#2 slicer. It is quite handy and has a nice stiff feel to the blade. I'm not sure if they will bring any more of them into the store (since I never seen it listed) but when it showed up I jumped on it and I'm glad I did.

salemj
Posts: 2603
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Perfect 240 suji

Post by salemj » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:25 pm

Chefspence wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:03 pm
salemj wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:08 am
I think I mentioned above (but perhaps it was in another post) that I had a 270mm suji that I thought was just terrific but that I had to sell because it was just too long. I would have loved the length in an ideal kitchen - certainly it was not "too long" of a knife for me to use - but the usual cutting spaces in my kitchen made it awkward to use. I imagine this is even more of an issue in most professional kitchens, in which dedicated spaces are often quite defined.

Point is, regardless of whether a certain size of knife is ideal for a task, the ability to use the knife comfortably and effectively is often limited by work space. I would use this factor to determine whether a 210 + 270 is a better combo than just having a 240. I know in my kitchen, several of my 210 gyutos work terrific as slicers, so having a 240 suji is far better in terms of a versatile slicer since the 270 is just too long for my cutting zones. Ultimately, when one has excess money to burn and space to store, it is great to have it all. I learned that even having the 270 just could not be justified at this point in time, even though I got it for a song and loved it...it just wasn't being used and I like to keep things in my block rather than in boxes.
I have no use for 270 knives, and I don't think that anything above 240 is necessary in a kitchen...unless it's a slicer. But even then, 270 is long for most tasks I've come across. Just to be a devil's advocate, I think the idea of using a gyuto as a slicer is absolutely preposterous. Slicing tasks belong to a slicer. I've tried with other knives and it just doesn't work well enough. No dig on you Joe. Thanks for all your input on this thread, as I really do want to find a solution that works. You've given me some good food for thought!!
No offense taken, and happy to have provided some useful thoughts. I'm not sure if we're on the same wave length (it seems odd to me to call slicing a chicken breast with a gyuto preposterous...it must be done daily in professional kitchens around the world), but I absolutely agree that using a gyuto as a "slicer" in any official capacity for precision slices of raw protein or larger roasts is uncalled for...and I'll also agree that this is increasingly absurd the larger you go on the gyuto scale (my 210 Kono is only 43mm at the heel and is as thin and precise as virtually any suji in terms of grind...it is much harder to imagine slicing something with any of my larger/longer blades since they are significantly taller at the heel and would introduce significantly more drag through any larger product than a proper slicer).

Anyways, it doesn't matter: certainly a slicer would be preferred when "slicing," and if I were a professional, this would matter a lot more to me, too. All the more reason why I am trying to respect your desire for a 240mm size and your design preferences.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

Cahudson42
Posts: 279
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:16 am

Re: Perfect 240 suji

Post by Cahudson42 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:58 am

@chefspence: I may have missed it, but did you mention why you are not also considering a yanagiba for your slicer? Perhaps like the 210 or 240 Saji?

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tasa24yaho.html

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