Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

We encourage you to post your questions about kitchen knives here. We can give you help choosing a knife.
Post Reply
User avatar
ChefKnivesToGo
Site Admin
Posts: 13106
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:23 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by ChefKnivesToGo » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:44 pm

Hi Mark:

Filled it out for you. I'd also like to add that I can wait a bit if there's anything cool that will be coming in the future. Thanks for taking the time!

1)Pro or home cook? Home cook
2)What kind of knife do you want? (gyuto, santoku, etc) Gyuto
3) What size knife do you want? 240mm - 250mm
4)How much do you want to spend? Max 300
5) Do you prefer stainless or reactive carbon? Reactive carbon for ease of sharpening; open to stainless if it performs just as well
6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle? Japanese
7)What are your main knife/knives now? Anryu Blue #2 Santoku, Akifusa SRS15 petty, Misen 8in Chefs knife
8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair? Good
9)Are you a rocker, chopper or push cutter? Depends on the knife. I'm best at chopping because my workhorse santoku calls for it. Looking for a great slicer.
10)Do you know how to sharpen? Yes, I go to town on the green brick of joy and polish with a shapton 8000 grit.
Mark Richmond
Co-Owner www.chefknivestogo.com
Founded in 2002
Madison Wisconsin

User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 9934
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Kentucky

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by Jeff B » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:20 pm

This sounds like just the knife for you.

Mazaki Shirogami Hairline Gyuto 240mm https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yashhagy24.html
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

Cahudson42
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:16 am

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by Cahudson42 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:41 pm

Perhaps another to consider is the Harukaze AS 240 @ $170. The AS carbon core at HRC 63 should hold up fine and be durable under slicing duties. While the stainless cladding makes it a bit easier to care for than a fully-reactive knife.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/haas24wagy.html

While I am considering one myself, I do not own one. So perhaps others can comment pro and cons?

GuyDebord
Posts: 28
Joined: Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:27 am

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by GuyDebord » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:56 pm

I have fallen in love with the Makoto, and I think you could also enjoy it. IMO its looks and performance are waaaay beyond its price tag. This knife maker will become a legend.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mawh2gy24cu.html

gladius
Posts: 3706
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by gladius » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Cahudson42 wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:41 pm
Perhaps another to consider is the Harukaze AS 240 @ $170. The AS carbon core at HRC 63 should hold up fine and be durable under slicing duties. While the stainless cladding makes it a bit easier to care for than a fully-reactive knife.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/haas24wagy.html

While I am considering one myself, I do not own one. So perhaps others can comment pro and cons?
—-
Get one...high performance, great steel and grind similar to the Akifusa/Harukaze SRS-15: a well acknowledged professtional workhorse with exceptional grind.

User avatar
ChefKnivesToGo
Site Admin
Posts: 13106
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:23 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Contact:

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by ChefKnivesToGo » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:46 am

There's a lot of good options. This one is a really nice blade and it's a looker too: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh2nagy24.html
Mark Richmond
Co-Owner www.chefknivestogo.com
Founded in 2002
Madison Wisconsin

Bluenoser87
Posts: 54
Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2018 12:33 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by Bluenoser87 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:58 am

Jeff B wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:20 pm
This sounds like just the knife for you.

Mazaki Shirogami Hairline Gyuto 240mm https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yashhagy24.html
I just got one of these. I like it so far. It’s well made though a bit on the heavy side. That’s not necessarily bad but it would certainly be different than the Anryu the OP mentioned. It’s blade heavy so it has a pretty different feel.

Lepus
Posts: 4562
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:06 pm
Location: Durham, NC

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by Lepus » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:26 pm

The Yahiko Nashiji is a really good option. It makes for a decent slicer. If you really want a good slicer you might want to consider a sujihiki, though.

If you want a budget option the ones mentioned are good, but I do think moving up the ladder to the $250 range pays off. That gives you access to all the Yahikos, the Mazaki Jeff mentioned, the Koishi, the Ikeda AS, and the Shibata AS. I have used most of them and for the right person any one could be perfect, so some of it comes down to you and your opinions. They’re all well composed knives that perform well.

The Harukaze and Makoto compete in terms of performance, but lack some of the aesthetic flair and sense of togetherness the above have. The Harukaze’s handle needed a little light sanding and board butter to warm up, but it is very similar to your Anryu’s handle after that. It also has a weird, almost artificial looking finish; I just got one and I can’t figure out why it doesn’t look right, but it doesn’t look quite right. Aesthetically the Makoto is nice but feels scattered. It has a great handle, nice kurouchi, a pretty blade road, and beautifully polished spine and choil, but the spine and choil don’t match the rustic kurouchi and the kanji is laser etched in instead of chiseled or stamped. This is juxtaposed by the Koishi, which is just as aesthetically nice on every element but all add up to make a cohesively beautiful.

User avatar
jbart65
Posts: 2585
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:18 pm

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by jbart65 » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:57 pm

For a chopper, I'd recommend the Yahiko among the knives listed here. But if you want to add the ability for long slicing of meat, the Shibata AS may be the best bet. Very thin and cuts beautifully - it might be the best cutter I''ve ever used.

I don't slice enough meat to really need or want a slicer. I just use a $30 Mercer Pro.
Jeffry B

benoubo
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:47 pm

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by benoubo » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:04 pm

Thanks for your suggestions everyone! Definitely some knives that I had not come across that look promising. The Shibata AS was at the top of my list based on specs, but I didn't see too many people caping for it from my limited time lurking the forums. I do like the aggressive geometry but are there any concerns with durability/toughness? I won't be going super hard on it, but it's definitely a bonus if I can throw a variety of tasks at it.

I have thought of going full sujihiki as well but generally skew towards multi-tools as I am more of a minimalist. Could be convinced to go that route if the holy grail of toughness/durability/laser precision is out of my price range.

In terms of handle geometry I think I want to avoid oval because the accumulated slime from breaking down large cuts of meat can get slippery.

Can anyone comment on what finishes (kurouchi, san mai, etc) would be preferential for protein release? I'm guessing friction has as much an effect as blade geometry for clean slicing.

salemj
Posts: 2468
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: Victoria, BC

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by salemj » Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:20 am

benoubo wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:04 pm
Thanks for your suggestions everyone! Definitely some knives that I had not come across that look promising. The Shibata AS was at the top of my list based on specs, but I didn't see too many people caping for it from my limited time lurking the forums. I do like the aggressive geometry but are there any concerns with durability/toughness? I won't be going super hard on it, but it's definitely a bonus if I can throw a variety of tasks at it.

I have thought of going full sujihiki as well but generally skew towards multi-tools as I am more of a minimalist. Could be convinced to go that route if the holy grail of toughness/durability/laser precision is out of my price range.

In terms of handle geometry I think I want to avoid oval because the accumulated slime from breaking down large cuts of meat can get slippery.

Can anyone comment on what finishes (kurouchi, san mai, etc) would be preferential for protein release? I'm guessing friction has as much an effect as blade geometry for clean slicing.
I'm pretty sure the Shibata AS is smithed by T. Ikeda (as his R2 knives are), and Ikeda's gyutos using this steel under his own name are tough as nails, even at the expense of a higher heat treat (which AS can take). I think the reason you don't see a lot of talk about the Shibata AS on the forum is that it is relatively new and seems to have a very curvy profile - particularly in terms of relief at the heel -, and lots of people around these parts tend to gravitate toward more subtle continuous curves or knives with more of a flat spot. Doesn't mean it is a bad profile or that people don't like it, though. But watch Steve's video of a gyuto to see what I mean (if you haven't already). I can be polarizing.

For protein release, I don't think you can generalize about finish. Some KU finishes are stickier than others, just like some hammered finishes can be harder to wipe down or remove wet protein from than a smooth finish of a particular type (similar for nashiji finishes, which can vary from smoother to quite rough and "sticky" for something like a raw chicken breast or even a kitchen towel). I think your best bet in that regard is just to make sure the knife has an easily modifiable finish so that you can always touch it up with sand paper or another abrasive if you want to get more release from the polish (or lack thereof). In my experience and the experience of several others, the most significant aspect of release (not separation, but release) of something like a wet protein is the actual degree of polish on the blade face, regardless of its type.

If you're still fine with all-carbon and the Shibata AS attracts you, you could go straight to the source with an Ikeda gyuto. I have a "KS clone" version and it is a very durable and versatile knife with proper technique. I think there are many other options, but the Ikeda does have a lot going for it in terms of sheer durability and performance, and it also looks better and better the more it is used—it is a knife that develops character very, very well. Beyond that, it hits the sweet-spot in terms of length, and maybe in terms of height, according to your list, and it will feel a bit more like a "middle weight" to match your Anryu and Akifusa. It would not be the best slicer, but it does have a thin enough and tall enough grind that it would outperform many other similarly sized gyutos as a slicer. The only issue is that the damascus can cause a little friction, although this can easily be tamed with some sand paper and a patina without any loss to the beauty of the knife.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

User avatar
jbart65
Posts: 2585
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:18 pm

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by jbart65 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:37 pm

My Shibata AS is no curvier than most other Takefu/Masakage knives and less than a Tanaka. Honestly, it cuts so well I don't think much about the profile. Little force is required given how sharp and thin it is.

Like Ali in his prime, the Shibata is too nimble to take a beating.
Jeffry B

Chefspence
Posts: 2299
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:03 pm

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by Chefspence » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:39 am

I used Jbart's Shibata AS. I didn't take it easy. chopped a bunch of cilantro and rosemary. Killed a ton of cabbage with it too. It's not weak at the edge by any means. i never had any micro chipping or anything. It's a stellar knife and probably the best cutter I've use, like jbart says. It excelled at cabbage unlike any laser or workhorse i've ever used. regardless of profile, it is a very capable knife for anything. Just not a pure chopper, but it's all about technique anyhow. I've come to find that I don't need an extended flat spot. Pick one up and try it. worst case, you can always sell it on the classifieds here and get most of the money back.

User avatar
jbart65
Posts: 2585
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:18 pm

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by jbart65 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:40 am

Chefspence wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:39 am
Just not a pure chopper, but it's all about technique anyhow. I've come to find that I don't need an extended flat spot.
+1. My Tanaka Sekiso has more curve than any Japanese knife I own, but it chops very well with just a slight adjustment in technique.
Jeffry B

gladius
Posts: 3706
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:59 pm

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by gladius » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:07 am

benoubo wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:04 pm
In terms of handle geometry I think I want to avoid oval because the accumulated slime from breaking down large cuts of meat can get slippery.

Can anyone comment on what finishes (kurouchi, san mai, etc) would be preferential for protein release? I'm guessing friction has as much an effect as blade geometry for clean slicing.
---
If an oval handle is not your preference, The Mazaki Shirogami Hairline Gyuto 240mm Jeff mentioned is excellent and unlike most of the knives mentioned has an iron cladding which is easier to sharpen & thin in the long term. The cladding is also not too reactive. Performance is very very good and has a long flat edge for chopping. This of course is a general purpose profile and has good food release but if you do allot of meat slicing a Sujihiki is what you want: low height and built to separate meat well.

Chefspence
Posts: 2299
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:03 pm

Re: Gyuto Recommendation for Ben

Post by Chefspence » Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:28 am

Totally agree with the Sujihiki rec. it’s built for a purpose.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest