Sharpening Hell

If you have questions about sharpening products, steels or techniques post them here.
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Jeff B
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by Jeff B » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:24 pm

The lower grit Shapton Pros are very good stones at an exceptional price. They are very hard to beat for the money.
When I sharpen knives for friends and family I always start on stones <320.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

jacko9
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by jacko9 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:49 pm

Jeff B wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:24 pm
The lower grit Shapton Pros are very good stones at an exceptional price. They are very hard to beat for the money.
When I sharpen knives for friends and family I always start on stones <320.
Jeff Is the Shapton Pro 220 a splash and go stone like the 320? Does the 220 stone behave like the 320 (a stone I really like)?

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Jeff B
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by Jeff B » Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:04 pm

jacko9 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:49 pm
Jeff B wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:24 pm
The lower grit Shapton Pros are very good stones at an exceptional price. They are very hard to beat for the money.
When I sharpen knives for friends and family I always start on stones <320.
Jeff Is the Shapton Pro 220 a splash and go stone like the 320? Does the 220 stone behave like the 320 (a stone I really like)?
Yes it is splash n go. I think it "behaves" very much like the 320 just a little more aggressive. I tend to like it more on stainless knives than the 320.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

pecanbery
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by pecanbery » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:15 pm

I had to remove around 3mm of steel to get rid of most of the chips. Didn't have any issues with a big burr, I think that might be due to alternating between sides every 20 strokes or so. Wouldn't want to do that again to the petty but the santoku has plenty of life left in it. It turns out the knives were being used on a glass chopping board for about a year before the owner decided it was bad for them.

Thanks for the advice Jeff, the Shapton Pros are reasonably priced in my area and shipping won't kill me. I'll get a 220 or a 320, just need to work out which.

jacko9
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by jacko9 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 7:18 pm

Jeff B wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 5:04 pm
jacko9 wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:49 pm
Jeff B wrote:
Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:24 pm
The lower grit Shapton Pros are very good stones at an exceptional price. They are very hard to beat for the money.
When I sharpen knives for friends and family I always start on stones <320.
Jeff Is the Shapton Pro 220 a splash and go stone like the 320? Does the 220 stone behave like the 320 (a stone I really like)?
Yes it is splash n go. I think it "behaves" very much like the 320 just a little more aggressive. I tend to like it more on stainless knives than the 320.
Thanks I see a 220 in my future.

itsjun
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by itsjun » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:21 am

diamond stones would probably do the work. but cons are it will remove more than needed.

jacko9
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by jacko9 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 9:27 am

Update - I just repaired another knife and spent way too long with my Shapton Pro 320. I have Ken sending me a Nubatama Black Bamboo 180 to see if I can speed up the repair process.

salemj
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by salemj » Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:38 am

I've noticed a bit part of the time (for me) relates to how I manage the stone. I've used my SP 320 on some occasions and it has been VERY slow; on other occasions, I just rinsed it clean very regularly, tried to avoid any mud development, and occasionally roughed it back up with a diamond plate during the process. It probably cut 5x faster.

Probably seems obvious, but it wasn't for me. I have definitely noticed that mud in particular can be the "enemy" when trying to remove steel by vastly increasing the "loading" of the stone—this is a particular problem with the SP 320. It is obviously "your friend" when trying to do other things, even at low grits (such as manage scratches). But if the goal is chip removal, I think you can do an awful lot with 300-500 grit if you just keep it clean, use as little water as possible after a thorough soak, and open it up with 2-3 quick passes of a diamond plate after every couple of minutes. The bonus is that you still have a lot of control over the process over something more coarse, so it is easier to manage new bevel production and the overall angle and thickness of the edge from heel to tip.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

jacko9
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by jacko9 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 1:17 pm

salemj wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:38 am
I've noticed a bit part of the time (for me) relates to how I manage the stone. I've used my SP 320 on some occasions and it has been VERY slow; on other occasions, I just rinsed it clean very regularly, tried to avoid any mud development, and occasionally roughed it back up with a diamond plate during the process. It probably cut 5x faster.

Probably seems obvious, but it wasn't for me. I have definitely noticed that mud in particular can be the "enemy" when trying to remove steel by vastly increasing the "loading" of the stone—this is a particular problem with the SP 320. It is obviously "your friend" when trying to do other things, even at low grits (such as manage scratches). But if the goal is chip removal, I think you can do an awful lot with 300-500 grit if you just keep it clean, use as little water as possible after a thorough soak, and open it up with 2-3 quick passes of a diamond plate after every couple of minutes. The bonus is that you still have a lot of control over the process over something more coarse, so it is easier to manage new bevel production and the overall angle and thickness of the edge from heel to tip.
I find that my SP 320 does act like you describe and I tend to hit it with my Atoma 140 several times during the session. I like the control vs my Nubatama 150 which seems too much like 80 grit wet dry sand paper so, I'm going to try the Nubatama Black Bamboo 180 and will probably get the SP 220 when it's back in stock.

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ken123
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by ken123 » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:08 pm

I did this tip repair yesterday using a 36 grit belt on a variable speed belt grinder. Took 5 minutes at the most, including deburring the left and right edges of the repair. I ground the leading surface down parallel to itself for a few mm until the damaged srea was removed.

I can't imagine wasting time and effort using a finer stone for doing coarse work. I'd rather go to the gym instead :)
received_289472361654215.jpeg
---
Ken

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Jeff B
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by Jeff B » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:30 pm

I don't mind taking an hour or so to do a repair on a knife, I kind of enjoy it. I'm definitely not going to go out and buy a belt sander just so I can do it in 5 minutes.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

jacko9
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by jacko9 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:36 pm

For me a belt sander is too fast - can't put metal back on without welding ;-)

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lsboogy
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by lsboogy » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:12 pm

Do what you are comfortable with. I work with many craftsmen (and women) who have skills I could never think to compete with even though I used to build spinning mass gyroscopes (one of the most complicated pieces of instrumentation in the world - and highest precision stuff as well). The abilities that some of the instrument builders possess is just phenomenal, the ability to but splice 60 gauge wire by hand or feel the surface of a fighter jet pitot and be able to fix it without a wind tunnel run are kind of the same thing as a good smith, grinder, or chef. I would not thin a good knife by myself, and if I chipped one that bad I would probably find someone on this site to fix it for me. Part of why I am on here - my abilities to do many things are dwarved by others - when you fly, I tell your pilot how high and fast he is going, when I watch Rick work in a kitchen I am put in my place. Most of us have skills in certain area that are beyond others, and some are great with grinding and thinning knives. If you want to learn to do something, go for it, I know some of my limitations and let those who do things better do them for me.

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ken123
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Re: Sharpening Hell

Post by ken123 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:41 pm

ken123 wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:08 pm
I did this tip repair yesterday using a 36 grit belt on a variable speed belt grinder. Took 5 minutes at the most, including deburring the left and right edges of the repair. I ground the leading surface down parallel to itself for a few mm until the damaged srea was removed.

I can't imagine wasting time and effort using a finer stone for doing coarse work. I'd rather go to the gym instead :)

received_289472361654215.jpeg
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Ken
I guess I do enough tip repairs that I just dont think of this as a big deal. Of course variable speed makes this much easier, but even doing this on a cheap 1x30 fixed speed isnt hard. Use a light touch! A 1x42 runs at a lower speed and is even easiet to use.

Of course if you dont want to spend an hour on a 5 minute job using a cosrse stone - in this case a 60 or 24 grit stone or worst case a 120 Shapton is an obvious choice. If you are grinding for an hour doing hundreds of strokes on a finer stone you are wasting stone, accumulating errors and just doing it the hard way. But to each their own :) Im just interested in being more efficient.

---
Ken

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