Why don't people like Santokus?

[jc_57]

I like a santoku just fine. I'm a casual home cook with a penchant for knives. I have a santoku, a nakiri, a couple of gyutos, a couple of k-tip gyutos, and a couple of western-profile chef's knives, some pettys and paring knives. Turns out that I like them all and use them when the mood strikes. If I were only going to have ONE knife, it would probably not be a santoku, but I am not limited to just one, so I choose to enjoy the variety of shapes and purposes.

[Igalor]

I've never used a santoku at work, but some of my co-workers do and seem to like them just fine. My old lady has a kaneshige one and whenever I use it I like it just fine, is perfectly acceptable for the amount of prep necessary for our meals, very thin and light.

[Mawgie]

My wife uses a uses a middle of the road German steel small to medium sized Santoku on an almost daily basis. I am constantly sharpening it for her. With a birthday coming up, I am showing her lots of different knife profiles and have offered her a JK of her choice. She has thus far chosen to stick with the Santoku shape, as she feels comfortable with the size, and just doesn't have the enthusiast itch for using different knives for different jobs. For me, I don't see much difference to distinguish the Santoku from the Gyuto shape, other than the Sanotioku might transfer product a little easier. The Gyuto seems much more versatile, able to to do nearly everything everything else better, or just as well as the Santoku. .

[Cutuu]

To me the the profiles between gyuto and santokus are usually quite different. I agree with (i think Lepus) who mentioned the more extreme belly of smaller gyutos. In that sense i would personally be proned to own a 180 santoku than a 180 gyuto. There was (i think) a gassan180 gyuto that looked much more lke a santoku

[jbart65]

I've got a 210 Gassan (used for dinner tonite). More of a cross between a gyuto and a santuko, combining the best aspects of the two. Terrific knife. Excellent treatment of blue #2. If not for the mundane hybrid Euro-Japanese handle and odd looking hammered finish - actually looks very nice in person - they would have sold better. I wonder if Mark could get them to put a J knife handle on and do a different finish. Gassan makes really nice knives.

[Bulldog93]

I just think 180-210 gyuto accomplishes all of the santoku needs/ purposes. And looks better doing it.

[Kit Craft]

I just think 180-210 gyuto accomplishes all of the santoku needs/ purposes. And looks better doing it.

I'd take a santoku over a 180mm gyuto every day of the week. 180's just have way too much belly for me.

[Bulldog93]

No tip on a santoku. I feel like I always need that for something.. carving out pepper flesh, horizontal onion cuts..etc. To each their own, of course!

[Kit Craft]

No tip on a santoku. I feel like I always need that for something.. carving out pepper flesh, horizontal onion cuts..etc. To each their own, of course!

A tip is useful but so is board contact. I will give you the pepper flesh as I reach for a 120mm petty for that but for horizontals I have no issues with a santoku. Mind you, I typically use a 210mm gyuto so that is non issue but I do not like the few 180's that I have. On the other hand, I find a 180mm petty to be quite nice but I use it for breaking down chickens and trimming sliver skin.

[Bulldog93]

Ah Kit. I like your style. I have a new shibata petty that's "kinda my santoku". Lots of flat spot. Loves to process chickens. It seems to love to do everything. I sound like a shibata shill... It snatched that role from a #w2 165mm petty that used to have that job (it's still my silver skin knife). All of my knives 160 size and above live in a saya. So..I find myself reaching for this petty all the time.

[GopherBroke]

When I first fell into the world of Japanese knives, and found all these addicts on one forum.... I was looking for my first JK; a santoku.

I asked question after question and drove these peeps crazy for weeks, and then bought a Moritaka AS Santoku, and LOVED IT!
I loved it more and more with every use... unitl I met GeorgeK and was blessed by his generosity and his knife collection. I quickly learned that I should have bought a 210 gyuto as my first JK. I sold the santoku and replaced with with a Moritaka AS 210.

Months later I borrowed JBart's Kurosaki R2 210 and fell in love with the R2 and Kurosaki-sans treatment of it. No 210 models that I liked were in stock, so I ordered the Bunka.
The bunka is very similar to blade shape/curve, so it performs very similar to the santoku.
The difference and improvement, at least in my opinion, is that the bunka has a far more functional/versatile tip.

If I had to do it all over again a santoku would not be on my list, anywhere.
Man, the time I wasted on that knife!

[Bulldog93]

I've always thought the 100mm petty/paring knife to be in a weird no-man's land. Too long for in hand work, not long enough for utility tasks.
The great variation in the way we see and use our tools shows why there is no right answer for picking the right knife/knives.

That is why I don't like 120mm petty knives. I find them an odd length. I used a 4 inch paring knife for years and am used to the length. Adjusting to the height of a Japanese blade was a bit awkward at first.

I just passed on a 120 Hattori kf. What a great handle. But.. it just didn't "have a purpose" (other than Cocktail duty, maybe). Sweet little handle though. And it stuck in my head. Almost made me jump on a little "twin" I saw at DCSharp in Union Market yesterday..a littlevTojoro..for $65 or something. But that moment passed too. Whew.

[JazzBass]

Hi! I'm new to this forum, and to high quality knives overall. I'm a home chef, 38 year old dad, who cooks virtually everything my family eats except when I'm at work. I've been interested in good food and cooking almost all my adult life, but my interest in Japanese knifes arose just about a month ago. The last few weeks I've had virtually nothing else on my mind.

Years ago, I used almost exclusively a chef's knife for a few years. That was until I bought a similar one with a much shorter blade, 14 cm, resembling a short Santoku with a thin blade. (Fiskars Functional Form, "short chef's knife"). Everything felt so much easier to do with that shorter blade, so after I got that knife I've always selected the shortest knife that still got the job done comfortably. Mostly it's been that same 14 cm knife. I don't really like to rock elsewhere than in my rock band, I'm more of a chopper. Due to that I'm not at all a fan of large chefs knifes anymore, and I'm thinking to get a gyuto only for the rare occasions I would need one. I'm as inspired getting a gyuto as I am when I'm about to buy a new vacuum cleaner. To me, it feels like the average tool that works ok for most tasks, but doesn't excel in any of them like other specialized knifes. I also have a Santoku from Fiskars (Solid series), with a considerably thicker blade and "hollowed edge" or whatever it's called, but I don't really like that one so much. Too heavy and too thick. I do like most lighter Santokus I've tried though, they seem to fit my technique very well.

Today I'll get my first Japanese Santoku, a Torijo Yasuki Shirogami polished carbon steel knife. It's very basic, but I thought it would be good as a first genuine Santoku. I look forward to test it, and hopefully, I'll like it. It's my first knife of carbon steel and with a Japanese style handle as well. Let's see if it will replace that 14cm chef's knife as my to-go knife. I hope so.

[Kit Craft]

Hi! I'm new to this forum, and to high quality knives overall. I'm a home chef, 38 year old dad, who cooks virtually everything my family eats except when I'm at work. I've been interested in good food and cooking almost all my adult life, but my interest in Japanese knifes arose just about a month ago. The last few weeks I've had virtually nothing else on my mind.

Years ago, I used almost exclusively a chef's knife for a few years. That was until I bought a similar one with a much shorter blade, 14 cm, resembling a short Santoku with a thin blade. (Fiskars Functional Form, "short chef's knife"). Everything felt so much easier to do with that shorter blade, so after I got that knife I've always selected the shortest knife that still got the job done comfortably. Mostly it's been that same 14 cm knife. I don't really like to rock elsewhere than in my rock band, I'm more of a chopper. Due to that I'm not at all a fan of large chefs knifes anymore, and I'm thinking to get a gyuto only for the rare occasions I would need one. I'm as inspired getting a gyuto as I am when I'm about to buy a new vacuum cleaner. To me, it feels like the average tool that works ok for most tasks, but doesn't excel in any of them like other specialized knifes. I also have a Santoku from Fiskars (Solid series), with a considerably thicker blade and "hollowed edge" or whatever it's called, but I don't really like that one so much. Too heavy and too thick. I do like most lighter Santokus I've tried though, they seem to fit my technique very well.

Today I'll get my first Japanese Santoku, a Torijo Yasuki Shirogami polished carbon steel knife. It's very basic, but I thought it would be good as a first genuine Santoku. I look forward to test it, and hopefully, I'll like it. It's my first knife of carbon steel and with a Japanese style handle as well. Let's see if it will replace that 14cm chef's knife as my to-go knife. I hope so.

That Tojiro will serve you well. Fit and finish on the blades is hit and miss. Sometimes with their Shiro lines I need to use a round file on the spine and choil because it is very sharp and sandpaper takes too long. Other times it only takes a little sandpaper. As I said, hit and miss. The handles can use a good sanding as well and some oil and beeswax or something else to treat them. They are fairly reactive but I have never had the trouble that some talk about. If you are vigilant for the first week or so they will form a patina and your onions will stop turning black. Finally, their performance far exceeds the price range.

I keep a Tojiro santoku in my travel bag, though I have given it away a few times I always replace it. Tojiro knives have earned a permanent place in my bag. I just wish they made a longer petty or shorter suji in their Shiro line.

Anyway, enjoy your new knife and your introduction into J-knives.

[jmcnelly85]

Jazz, I think you would absolutely love a nakiri, welcome to the rabbit hole.

[JazzBass]

That Tojiro will serve you well. Fit and finish on the blades is hit and miss. Sometimes with their Shiro lines I need to use a round file on the spine and choil because it is very sharp and sandpaper takes too long. Other times it only takes a little sandpaper. As I said, hit and miss. The handles can use a good sanding as well and some oil and beeswax or something else to treat them. They are fairly reactive but I have never had the trouble that some talk about. If you are vigilant for the first week or so they will form a patina and your onions will stop turning black. Finally, their performance far exceeds the price range.

I keep a Tojiro santoku in my travel bag, though I have given it away a few times I always replace it. Tojiro knives have earned a permanent place in my bag. I just wish they made a longer petty or shorter suji in their Shiro line.

Anyway, enjoy your new knife and your introduction into J-knives.

Thanks Kit! And you're right - I did love that knife on first sight, or actually feel. It's really sharp, lightweight and thin. It's a bit rough in terms of finishing, but I don't have anything against that either. Eventually it will get smoother over time. I put some canola oil on the handle which perhaps it wasn't the best idea when I think about it, but I might sand it a little anyway. The spine is fine to me. The only drawback is that food sticks badly to the knife when cutting, but I guess a patina build-up would help up that issue a little.

jmcnelly85: That was actually the first thing I decided to get. However, I was less lucky with that one (see my thread "got a heavy nakiri") so I might order a second one soon. And thanks for the welcome! I have a feeling that this might turn into a rather expensive hobby.

[Kit Craft]

That Tojiro will serve you well. Fit and finish on the blades is hit and miss. Sometimes with their Shiro lines I need to use a round file on the spine and choil because it is very sharp and sandpaper takes too long. Other times it only takes a little sandpaper. As I said, hit and miss. The handles can use a good sanding as well and some oil and beeswax or something else to treat them. They are fairly reactive but I have never had the trouble that some talk about. If you are vigilant for the first week or so they will form a patina and your onions will stop turning black. Finally, their performance far exceeds the price range.

I keep a Tojiro santoku in my travel bag, though I have given it away a few times I always replace it. Tojiro knives have earned a permanent place in my bag. I just wish they made a longer petty or shorter suji in their Shiro line.

Anyway, enjoy your new knife and your introduction into J-knives.

Thanks Kit! And you're right - I did love that knife on first sight, or actually feel. It's really sharp, lightweight and thin. It's a bit rough in terms of finishing, but I don't have anything against that either. Eventually it will get smoother over time. I put some canola oil on the handle which perhaps it wasn't the best idea when I think about it, but I might sand it a little anyway. The spine is fine to me. The only drawback is that food sticks badly to the knife when cutting, but I guess a patina build-up would help up that issue a little.

jmcnelly85: That was actually the first thing I decided to get. However, I was less lucky with that one (see my thread "got a heavy nakiri") so I might order a second one soon. And thanks for the welcome! I have a feeling that this might turn into a rather expensive hobby.

I find that odd, mine does not stick at all. I mean zero stick from day one. In fact, no ITK knife that I have ever owned has had sticking issues. As for the patina, I actually find patina to cause drag. Is yours maybe the ground finish? The ones I get from Mark, the ITK line, have hammer dimples and almost feel like they have some hollow on the flat of the blade.

[JazzBass]

I find that odd, mine does not stick at all. I mean zero stick from day one. In fact, no ITK knife that I have ever owned has had sticking issues. As for the patina, I actually find patina to cause drag. Is yours maybe the ground finish? The ones I get from Mark, the ITK line, have hammer dimples and almost feel like they have some hollow on the flat of the blade.

This one is polished but have a smooth matte area just above the edge. A hammered/nashiji/kurouchi finish would probably have been a better choice in this perspective. The model number of this knife is F-701A, while the one you refer to seems to be F-698.

[Kit Craft]

I find that odd, mine does not stick at all. I mean zero stick from day one. In fact, no ITK knife that I have ever owned has had sticking issues. As for the patina, I actually find patina to cause drag. Is yours maybe the ground finish? The ones I get from Mark, the ITK line, have hammer dimples and almost feel like they have some hollow on the flat of the blade.

This one is polished but have a smooth matte area just above the edge. A hammered/nashiji/kurouchi finish would probably have been a better choice in this perspective. The model number of this knife is F-701A, while the one you refer to seems to be F-698.

I see, thank you for the clarification. Too many sub lines within the same line.

[Jeff B]

For a supposedly "not so popular" knife, this conversation has some serious legs!
For me....used a few, don't like them, but to each there own though.